From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DNS_FROM_RFC_POST, SPF_NEUTRAL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC835BBC4 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:37:39 +0100 (CET) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApYBAG6pvklA6ba7kGdsb2JhbACNAIgXPwEBAQEJCQwHEQOubYEHjl0BAwEDg3wG X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,375,1233529200"; d="scan'208";a="25699239" Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.187]) by mail1-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 17 Mar 2009 03:37:39 +0100 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b11so1048642nfh.13 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:37:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:reply-to:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GNA83zpSYL0CuDlbPASyHFmQa9bJrawZTtLH+jqceUA=; b=TP1Pm8RFQVHE2f7Zx/XXhOrVjaYxu4bs67uAlafmdo71CYN6Ouc8uJoxiPlna9zMme 1dx8363vTSMCHMQ6wz2/TdggqmtOtLphv48QKTYxfx9zi3lS8bNgNSUZuj3ral9Piwrg gGkyZ+XwpgKSUk1Xd74zDkMrWuD1Zqoo1JsV0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Z7+t5Z028SEePy6SSdvlsXc9FeGzwLlO8lwNyocEzYO/qYGZ/lNMuuE9KNEx4kUo43 R43yS1uZ+3R7meJ2bs2YDWiQBT5o0dYlA8MftObRiJzMl3GwNT+So3T9QaQwaBYZe9Aj JQVWdxlAnuXlsZnfD+YBZiJdKAOOaLm556BNY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.71.13 with SMTP id t13mr4066134eba.56.1237257459185; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: david.baelde@ens-lyon.org In-Reply-To: References: <891bd3390903131252t7feb059aq94f56b0a4d2efbf3@mail.gmail.com> <87hc1wyl9q.fsf@aryx.cs.uiuc.edu> <891bd3390903141025w3d0580dbgf97ab4f40386903d@mail.gmail.com> <87d4chy29p.fsf@aryx.cs.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:37:39 +0100 Message-ID: <53c655920903161937w4d6d5a28t94e95a3910048342@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Caml-list] caml trading From: David Baelde To: Caml Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocaml:01 markus:01 mottl:01 markus:01 mottl:01 arises:01 non-trivial:01 ocaml:01 cheers:01 2009:98 hard-earned:98 flawless:98 beliefs:98 wrote:01 caml-list:01 Hi, I'm not sure how much this is off-topic... Although this thread was intended to be about an industrial use of OCaml, one cannot ignore other aspects like advertising: it is rarely possible to separate issues as clearly as we'd like. Anyway, I feel very much concerned about this debate, and I'd like to add another non-Jane-St opinion. Like many others, I've been feeling for a long time that many financial products and practices don't make sense. I recognize that we live in a complex world, and perhaps I should just learn more about economics. However, the recent crisis showed that this feeling is not entirely unfounded, even if it does not show that finance is harmful as a whole. I agree with Yoann's old-fashioned feeling: if you don't bring anything to society, why should you make that much money? The point against super-fast trading is not so much that speed is immoral in itself, but that such fast transactions usually seem to fall in the category of no-value-added. A simple answer to this criticism is that the notion of usefulness to the society is very controversial. Let me comment on the answer that was given instead. On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Markus Mottl wrote: > Thus, besides providing wonderful jobs for OCaml-hackers, our company > makes it cheaper for people to invest their hard-earned money by > providing extra liquidity on financial markets. All you're saying is that you believe in free trade. If my mobile phone company is ripping me, they can justify it because other companies might rip their customers even more? Notoriously, this argument does not always work: in France, all mobile phone companies practice similar insane prices and no "fair" one arises. I'd like to understand finance, maybe I'll read some serious stuff about it some day. But I feel that it's really too bad that such an important matter is inaccessible to most citizens. More importantly, one should not fool people (or oneself) with sloppy metaphors and apparently flawless reasoning when it actually boils down to non-trivial beliefs about the world economy. In my opinion, a major sickness of our world is that it is ruled by people who claim to understand it when they don't. Politicians always have solutions, never doubts. Obviously, it's just a way to justify why they're ruling those who don't understand. We should keep our eyes open and don't let it happen unnoticed, nor reproduce it ourselves. Despite my doubts, I enjoyed Yaron's talk and appreciate the Jane St involvement in OCaml. I just wish it were that simple. Cheers, -- David