From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by walapai.inria.fr (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id pB89ARcQ014241 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:10:27 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjcBAOR94E5KfVI0imdsb2JhbABDqlwIIgEBAQoJDQcSBiGCCwImBgEBOE5GAQUBIicFCYdnmigKijOEHAGNfweKWGOiXz2Deg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.71,319,1320620400"; d="scan'208";a="134497954" Received: from mail-ww0-f52.google.com ([74.125.82.52]) by mail1-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 08 Dec 2011 10:10:20 +0100 Received: by wgbdr12 with SMTP id dr12so3569488wgb.9 for ; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 01:10:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id :to:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=aKtiR2aFGWnYrsa8dQiTBNjUjno0XRSeCSycC1Mt7GY=; b=ji9liqVjO80K+Xv3SYcjkT8864ukjr9UNKI0iHUnxDj2WPju6Knmny8ZbdtxJ/7tuh 6t6Drb04CXrgZWClSVcSURmzF114THGzj/CehgQwT+u5rlWj4eu3M00HwyVAYT+Ca2Tb AXZCrJpLqGT0lp2ATPSugQ5xPtM0sW1fLQ7AY= Received: by 10.180.103.131 with SMTP id fw3mr3611793wib.57.1323335420036; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 01:10:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from coruscant.kosmos.all (ip-95-223-170-32.unitymediagroup.de. [95.223.170.32]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hq5sm7610159wib.7.2011.12.08.01.10.17 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 08 Dec 2011 01:10:18 -0800 (PST) From: Benedikt Meurer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:10:19 +0100 Message-Id: <55531934-37A5-4CC5-AB67-20CE4CCE8269@googlemail.com> To: caml users Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by walapai.inria.fr id pB89ARcQ014241 Subject: [Caml-list] OCaml maintenance status / community fork (again) Dear caml-list, I'd like to get back to the original topic, which BTW had nothing to do with Web 2.0, documentation, books, teaching, Batteries, PR, or whatever other topics came up. Of course those are important topics too, but hijacking other threads won't help with either. There were already a few useful comments on the topic, but no statement from the current INRIA officials. Opening up the development of OCaml is a great suggestion, for example. Personally I'd even suggest to disconnect OCaml and INRIA, with an independent team of core maintainers (with appropriate spare time and knowledge). INRIA would still contribute to OCaml, but no longer control OCaml. And to respond to those who think that the current development process is a "good thing" and leads to stability: By no way. It leads to stagnation and ignorance (most probably). For example, have a look at PR/3746, a great example. It took almost 4 years(!) to update the ARM port to softfp (and EABI). At the time the issue was finally fixed, most ARM application boards were already shipping with VFP, so the port is lacking behind several years. And even after all that time, the ARM port is not implemented properly, i.e. it's of the IP for argument passing does not only cause trouble with position independent code, but is forbidden in general because IP is reserved for linker stubs, both static and dynamic. The relevant bug report PR/5404, which includes a backward compatible patch, is already waiting for a sign of life for 3 weeks now (maybe wait another 4 years to get the port fixed). And what about the ARMv7-a / armhf port? I almost got it working, but looking at the past of the ARM port, I'm already pissed off by the fact that it will probably take ages for someone to even respond to the patch, not to mention that it will take forever to get it out to the users (well maybe Debian will include the patch for armhf, but that means the Debian developers have to do upstream work...). Granted, ARM is not (yet) the main target platform, it's just to illustrate the inherent weakness of closed development combined with lack of time/interest. Sure there will always be areas where projects cannot keep up because of lack of knowledge/time, but it is unnecessarily frustrating and harmful for an open source project to lack behind in areas with active contributors with both knowledge and time. That's why I'd suggest to set OCaml free, either with the help of INRIA and by leaving INRIA behind if there's no other way to move on. In either case, it'd be great if the official core team would at least take the time to comment on this issue. best regards, Benedikt PS: Please avoid hijacking this thread.