Cocoa bindings (again)

Cocoa bindings (again)

[Joel Reymont]

Folks,

I would like to tinker with Cocoa bindings and try to move that  
project forward.

Where should I start from? I would like to take the route of parsing  
Obj-C header files.

	Thanks, Joel

--
http://wagerlabs.com/

Re: [Caml-list] Cocoa bindings (again)

[Jean-Marie Gaillourdet]

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Hi,

On 18.07.2006, at 23:38, Joel Reymont wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I would like to tinker with Cocoa bindings and try to move that  
> project forward.
>
> Where should I start from? I would like to take the route of  
> parsing Obj-C header files.

The swig manual states that they support experimentally Objective-C  
parsing. Swig is a wrapper generator with an OCaml backend. So this  
might be a starting point :-)

Regards,
   Jean-Marie

PS: I don't have any experience with swig myself, therefore I don't  
claim that it is really good.
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Re: [Caml-list] Cocoa bindings (again)

[Paul Snively]

On Jul 18, 2006, at 2:38 PM, Joel Reymont wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I would like to tinker with Cocoa bindings and try to move that  
> project forward.
>
> Where should I start from? I would like to take the route of  
> parsing Obj-C header files.
>
I agree that this is long overdue. A long time ago, Mike Hamburg,  
Jeff Henrikson, and I made noises about working on this, based on  
Mike's work on addressing the runtime side of it (he got so far as to  
have a somewhat under-performant but usable runtime library  
integrating O'Caml with the Objective C runtime based, IIRC, on  
Obj.magic) and Jeff pointed out that Frontc, the parser that he used  
in his Forklift FFI, had diverged from probably the best one for real- 
world use, which is embedded in CIL and intertwined in ways that make  
it a challenge to backport. Mike, Jeff, if you're reading this, is  
this a fair characterization of your efforts and thoughts?

In any case, I still believe that:

1) It's worth addressing whatever issues need addressing in Mike's work.
2) It's worth resolving what parser to use and, IMHO, how to evolve  
Forklift to support generating calls to and from Objective C via  
Mike's runtime work.
3) It's worth combining the two to provide the Forklift annotations  
to allow calling into and out of Cocoa on Mac OS X.
4) It's worth writing an FRP system for O'Caml a la Yampa for Haskell.
5) It's worth using said FRP system in conjunction with perhaps  
<http://ocaml-win32.sourceforge.net>, http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto- 
u.ac.jp/soft/lsl/lablgtk.html, and our Cocoa bindings to create a  
truly cross-platform GUI environment for O'Caml.

Thoughts?

> 	Thanks, Joel
>
> --
> http://wagerlabs.com/

Best regards,
Paul

Re: [Caml-list] Cocoa bindings (again)

[Joel Reymont]

I must be missing something but ... what does FRP have to do with  
Cocoa bindings?

On Jul 20, 2006, at 5:40 PM, Paul Snively wrote:

> 4) It's worth writing an FRP system for O'Caml a la Yampa for Haskell.
> 5) It's worth using said FRP system in conjunction with perhaps  
> <http://ocaml-win32.sourceforge.net>, http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto- 
> u.ac.jp/soft/lsl/lablgtk.html, and our Cocoa bindings to create a  
> truly cross-platform GUI environment for O'Caml.

--
http://wagerlabs.com/

Re: [Caml-list] Cocoa bindings (again)

[Chris King]

On 7/20/06, Paul Snively <psnively@mac.com> wrote:
> 4) It's worth writing an FRP system for O'Caml a la Yampa for Haskell.

FWIW The past couple weeks I've been working on an FRP system modeled
after PLT Scheme's FrTime for O'Caml.  I hope to release a preliminary
version in a week or so.

> 5) It's worth using said FRP system in conjunction with perhaps
> <http://ocaml-win32.sourceforge.net>, http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-
> u.ac.jp/soft/lsl/lablgtk.html, and our Cocoa bindings to create a
> truly cross-platform GUI environment for O'Caml.

This is my idea also.  Along with the FRP core I've been developing a
simple set of GUI widgets based on lablgtk2 that integrate with it
(with the the intent of also writing Cocoa and Win32 bindings).

Re: [Caml-list] Cocoa bindings (again)

[Paul Snively]

On Jul 20, 2006, at 9:57 AM, Joel Reymont wrote:

> I must be missing something but ... what does FRP have to do with  
> Cocoa bindings?
>
In and of itself, nothing; I just like the FRP approach to GUI  
programming, so I see an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone:

1) Provide O'Caml a nice FRP framework.
2) Provide O'Caml a nice GUI framework that doesn't suffer the  
vagaries of the usual OO GUI frameworks.

Best regards,
Paul

> On Jul 20, 2006, at 5:40 PM, Paul Snively wrote:
>
>> 4) It's worth writing an FRP system for O'Caml a la Yampa for  
>> Haskell.
>> 5) It's worth using said FRP system in conjunction with perhaps  
>> <http://ocaml-win32.sourceforge.net>, http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto- 
>> u.ac.jp/soft/lsl/lablgtk.html, and our Cocoa bindings to create a  
>> truly cross-platform GUI environment for O'Caml.
>
> --
> http://wagerlabs.com/
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Caml-list] Cocoa bindings (again)

[Joel Reymont]

On Jul 20, 2006, at 7:34 PM, Paul Snively wrote:

> 2) Provide O'Caml a nice GUI framework that doesn't suffer the  
> vagaries of the usual OO GUI frameworks.

Does LabGTK suffer from this?

I'm new to OCaml but I've got Haskell experience and I'm thinking of  
following the HOC (Haskell Cocoa bindings) approach to parsing header  
files. I previously got most of a Lisp Cocoa bridge done (for Allegro  
CL) and found the dynamic approach to be in a pain in the rear due to  
the high numbers of hidden structs and classes that don't appear in  
header files but can be discovered through the runtime.

--
http://wagerlabs.com/

Re: Re: [Caml-list] Cocoa bindings (again)

[Corey O'Connor]

FRP is a new acronym to me. Anyone care to enlighten me? Does it mean
"Functional Reactive Programming"? Any recommendations on where to get
up to speed in FRP?

-Corey

On 7/20/06, Paul Snively <psnively@mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 20, 2006, at 9:57 AM, Joel Reymont wrote:
>
> > I must be missing something but ... what does FRP have to do with
> > Cocoa bindings?
> >
> In and of itself, nothing; I just like the FRP approach to GUI
> programming, so I see an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone:
>
> 1) Provide O'Caml a nice FRP framework.
> 2) Provide O'Caml a nice GUI framework that doesn't suffer the
> vagaries of the usual OO GUI frameworks.
>
> Best regards,
> Paul
>
> > On Jul 20, 2006, at 5:40 PM, Paul Snively wrote:
> >
> >> 4) It's worth writing an FRP system for O'Caml a la Yampa for
> >> Haskell.
> >> 5) It's worth using said FRP system in conjunction with perhaps
> >> <http://ocaml-win32.sourceforge.net>, http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-
> >> u.ac.jp/soft/lsl/lablgtk.html, and our Cocoa bindings to create a
> >> truly cross-platform GUI environment for O'Caml.
> >
> > --
> > http://wagerlabs.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


-- 
-Corey O'Connor

Re: [Caml-list] Cocoa bindings (again)

[James Woodyatt]

On Jul 20, 2006, at 11:34 AM, Paul Snively wrote:
>
> In and of itself, nothing; I just like the FRP approach to GUI  
> programming, so I see an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone:
>
> 1) Provide O'Caml a nice FRP framework.

At the risk of engaging in more than my fair share of self-promotion,  
I should point out that the OCaml NAE I/O Reactor library I just  
released is an FRP framework.  It's pretty spare at the moment and  
needs a lot of additions.  Also, I didn't write it with graphical  
user interfaces in mind-- the goal was a good framework for single- 
threaded multiplexing network application servers.  (The acronym  
"NAE" stands for 'Network Application Environment'.)

	<http://sf.net/projects/ocnae/>

The Yampa framework doesn't strike me as appropriate for building a  
GUI.  I suspect such a GUI toolkit would offer highly underwhelming  
performance characteristics.  I could be wrong about that, and would  
welcome such a surprise, but that's what my unscientific guess tells me.

> 2) Provide O'Caml a nice GUI framework that doesn't suffer the  
> vagaries of the usual OO GUI frameworks.

For my own part, I plan to do all my GUI work in Cocoa with native  
Objective-C.  A more useful addition to the OCaml HUMP, I argue,  
would be bindings for CoreData.

	<http://developer.apple.com/macosx/coredata.html>

At some point, if no one else has done it first, I will get around to  
doing it myself.  Don't anybody hold their breath waiting for it,  
though... I have a lot of hobby projects these days, what with a day  
job and a 6-month old baby in the house.


—
j h woodyatt <jhw@conjury.org>