[Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Nicolas Barnier]

Hi OCamlers,

We use OCaml at ENAC (French Civil Aviation University) to teach the 
basics of programming and the
design of algorithms in the first year course of CS major since 1995. 
The cursus is now under deep
revisionand we're trying to advocate its convenience in the new cursus 
to our hierarchy and
colleagues.

We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are 
actually currently using
OCaml, and for which cursus. Short of finding a long enough list on the 
OCaml websites or by
googling, we've decided to try the caml-list for feedback. So if you are 
involved in a CS course
using OCaml, we would greatly appreciate that you let us know, so as to 
help us arguing to keep
this great language in our cursus.

Cheers,

-- Nicolas Barnier

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Yaron Minsky]

- Harvard's CS51 is the 2nd-semester course which all CS majors take,
  and it is taught in OCaml.
- Cornell's algorithms class is mandatory for all majors, and is
  taught in OCaml.
- Penn teaches OCaml in at least some of it's intro sequence.
- Not quite OCaml, but CMU teaches SML to all undergrads as part of
  its intro sequence.
- Brown does at least some OCaml in their CS curriculum, though I'm
  not sure of the details.  I just know that a goodly fraction of the
  applicants from Brown know OCaml.
- Princeton has a new FP course that teaches OCaml, that I know people
  there are pretty excited about.

There are probably more I'm missing, but that's a start

y

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Nicolas Barnier
<barnier@recherche.enac.fr> wrote:
> Hi OCamlers,
>
> We use OCaml at ENAC (French Civil Aviation University) to teach the basics
> of programming and the
> design of algorithms in the first year course of CS major since 1995. The
> cursus is now under deep
> revisionand we're trying to advocate its convenience in the new cursus to
> our hierarchy and
> colleagues.
>
> We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are
> actually currently using
> OCaml, and for which cursus. Short of finding a long enough list on the
> OCaml websites or by
> googling, we've decided to try the caml-list for feedback. So if you are
> involved in a CS course
> using OCaml, we would greatly appreciate that you let us know, so as to help
> us arguing to keep
> this great language in our cursus.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Nicolas Barnier
>
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Roberto Di Cosmo]

Hi Nicolas,
   nice idea to ask about this... let me add that in the Paris
area there are many many places where OCaml is taught (too
many to list here, but just out of muy head, University Paris Diderot,
level L3 and L1, University Pierre et Marie Curie, Orsay, ESIIE
and Epitech all use OCaml at different levels)

We would really need a central place to keep this info well
structured. Even a simple wiki page would do.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 01:56:14PM -0400, Yaron Minsky wrote:
> - Harvard's CS51 is the 2nd-semester course which all CS majors take,
>   and it is taught in OCaml.
> - Cornell's algorithms class is mandatory for all majors, and is
>   taught in OCaml.
> - Penn teaches OCaml in at least some of it's intro sequence.
> - Not quite OCaml, but CMU teaches SML to all undergrads as part of
>   its intro sequence.
> - Brown does at least some OCaml in their CS curriculum, though I'm
>   not sure of the details.  I just know that a goodly fraction of the
>   applicants from Brown know OCaml.
> - Princeton has a new FP course that teaches OCaml, that I know people
>   there are pretty excited about.
> 
> There are probably more I'm missing, but that's a start
> 
> y
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Nicolas Barnier
> <barnier@recherche.enac.fr> wrote:
> > Hi OCamlers,
> >
> > We use OCaml at ENAC (French Civil Aviation University) to teach the basics
> > of programming and the
> > design of algorithms in the first year course of CS major since 1995. The
> > cursus is now under deep
> > revisionand we're trying to advocate its convenience in the new cursus to
> > our hierarchy and
> > colleagues.
> >
> > We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are
> > actually currently using
> > OCaml, and for which cursus. Short of finding a long enough list on the
> > OCaml websites or by
> > googling, we've decided to try the caml-list for feedback. So if you are
> > involved in a CS course
> > using OCaml, we would greatly appreciate that you let us know, so as to help
> > us arguing to keep
> > this great language in our cursus.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > -- Nicolas Barnier
> >
> >
> > --
> > Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 
> -- 
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

-- 
Roberto Di Cosmo
 
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Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Bertrand Bonnefoy-Claudet]

Supélec has an introductory course to programming languages for first
year students (mandatory but not graded) and the section on functional
programming is taught with OCaml at least on the Metz campus
(http://www.metz.supelec.fr/metz/personnel/frezza/MLP/). I think that
Lisp is used instead on other campuses.

That's not much but maybe worth mentioning.

2013/3/15 Roberto Di Cosmo <roberto@dicosmo.org>:
> Hi Nicolas,
>    nice idea to ask about this... let me add that in the Paris
> area there are many many places where OCaml is taught (too
> many to list here, but just out of muy head, University Paris Diderot,
> level L3 and L1, University Pierre et Marie Curie, Orsay, ESIIE
> and Epitech all use OCaml at different levels)
>
> We would really need a central place to keep this info well
> structured. Even a simple wiki page would do.
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 01:56:14PM -0400, Yaron Minsky wrote:
>> - Harvard's CS51 is the 2nd-semester course which all CS majors take,
>>   and it is taught in OCaml.
>> - Cornell's algorithms class is mandatory for all majors, and is
>>   taught in OCaml.
>> - Penn teaches OCaml in at least some of it's intro sequence.
>> - Not quite OCaml, but CMU teaches SML to all undergrads as part of
>>   its intro sequence.
>> - Brown does at least some OCaml in their CS curriculum, though I'm
>>   not sure of the details.  I just know that a goodly fraction of the
>>   applicants from Brown know OCaml.
>> - Princeton has a new FP course that teaches OCaml, that I know people
>>   there are pretty excited about.
>>
>> There are probably more I'm missing, but that's a start
>>
>> y
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Nicolas Barnier
>> <barnier@recherche.enac.fr> wrote:
>> > Hi OCamlers,
>> >
>> > We use OCaml at ENAC (French Civil Aviation University) to teach the basics
>> > of programming and the
>> > design of algorithms in the first year course of CS major since 1995. The
>> > cursus is now under deep
>> > revisionand we're trying to advocate its convenience in the new cursus to
>> > our hierarchy and
>> > colleagues.
>> >
>> > We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are
>> > actually currently using
>> > OCaml, and for which cursus. Short of finding a long enough list on the
>> > OCaml websites or by
>> > googling, we've decided to try the caml-list for feedback. So if you are
>> > involved in a CS course
>> > using OCaml, we would greatly appreciate that you let us know, so as to help
>> > us arguing to keep
>> > this great language in our cursus.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > -- Nicolas Barnier
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>> > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>>
>> --
>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>
> --
> Roberto Di Cosmo
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Professeur               En delegation a l'INRIA
> PPS                      E-mail: roberto@dicosmo.org
> Universite Paris Diderot WWW  : http://www.dicosmo.org
> Case 7014                Tel  : ++33-(0)1-57 27 92 20
> 5, Rue Thomas Mann
> F-75205 Paris Cedex 13   Identica: http://identi.ca/rdicosmo
> FRANCE.                  Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdicosmo
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Attachments:
> MIME accepted, Word deprecated
>       http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Office location:
>
> Bureau 320 (3rd floor)
> Batiment Sophie Germain
> Avenue de France
> Metro Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand, ligne 14/RER C
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> --
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> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Roberto Di Cosmo]

2013/3/15 Roberto Di Cosmo <roberto@dicosmo.org>:
> Hi Nicolas,
>    nice idea to ask about this... let me add that in the Paris
> area there are many many places where OCaml is taught (too
> many to list here, but just out of muy head, University Paris Diderot,
> level L3 and L1, University Pierre et Marie Curie, Orsay, ESIIE
               ^^---- M1, not L1, actually
> and Epitech all use OCaml at different levels)
>
> We would really need a central place to keep this info well
> structured. Even a simple wiki page would do.
>

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Ashish Agarwal]

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On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Roberto Di Cosmo <roberto@dicosmo.org>wrote:

We would really need a central place to keep this info well
> structured. Even a simple wiki page would do.
>

Why not the ocaml.org website. I've created an issue to keep track of the
suggestions so far:
https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml.org/issues/119

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Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Marek Kubica]

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:49:18 +0100
Nicolas Barnier <barnier@recherche.enac.fr> wrote:

> We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are 
> actually currently using OCaml, and for which cursus.

The Technische Universität München is/was using it for a course called
"Introduction to computer science 2". It is not OCaml specific but
rather focuses on functional programming so a year ago it SML and this
year it was Haskell. Depends on the professor.

regards,
Marek

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Philippe Wang]

Yes, there should be such a page somewhere, ocaml.org seems to be the
right place for that.

I started getting more information about the courses:
http://philippewang.info/CL/?id=where_ocaml_is_used_for_teaching_purposes
(it's a draft)


On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Ashish Agarwal <agarwal1975@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Roberto Di Cosmo <roberto@dicosmo.org>
> wrote:
>
>> We would really need a central place to keep this info well
>> structured. Even a simple wiki page would do.
>
>
> Why not the ocaml.org website. I've created an issue to keep track of the
> suggestions so far:
> https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml.org/issues/119
>



--
Philippe Wang
   mail@philippewang.info

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Lukasz Stafiniak]

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OCaml is taught in an optional course called "Functional Programming" at
Wrocław University of Technology and at University of Wrocław. For
contrast, at an obligatory course called "Programming" for Computer Science
at University of Wrocław, there are elements of Haskell and Prolog (rather
than OCaml).

http://international.uni.wroc.pl/en/course/functional-programming
http://international.uni.wroc.pl/en/course/programming

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Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Bertrand Bonnefoy-Claudet]

I forgot to mention the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.
There's an undergrad course on programming languages and compilers:

http://courses.engr.illinois.edu/cs421/

2013/3/15 Lukasz Stafiniak <lukstafi@gmail.com>:
> OCaml is taught in an optional course called "Functional Programming" at
> Wrocław University of Technology and at University of Wrocław. For contrast,
> at an obligatory course called "Programming" for Computer Science at
> University of Wrocław, there are elements of Haskell and Prolog (rather than
> OCaml).
>
> http://international.uni.wroc.pl/en/course/functional-programming
> http://international.uni.wroc.pl/en/course/programming
>

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Jason Yeo]

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I'm an undergrad at the National University of Singapore. We are taught to
use ocaml for a Programming Language Implementation class.

Previously, the class was taught using java. Ocaml is definitely a better
choice for the class because of ADTs and the expressiveness of the language.

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Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Valentin ROBERT]

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My 2 cents: OCaml is used at the University of California, San Diego, as
part of the undergraduate Programming Languages class (along with Python
and Prolog).

cf. http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/classes/wi13/cse130-a/

- Valentin


On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Jason Yeo <jasonyeo88@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm an undergrad at the National University of Singapore. We are taught to
> use ocaml for a Programming Language Implementation class.
>
> Previously, the class was taught using java. Ocaml is definitely a better
> choice for the class because of ADTs and the expressiveness of the language.
>

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Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Dagnat Fabien]

Hello,
In Télécom Bretagne, there is/was two courses using Caml :
- For first year student (L3), for those having already followed the computer science option in preparatory school. Notice that the other are in Python and starting next year Python will be used for all first year students https://portail.telecom-bretagne.eu/portal/pls/portal/pkg_df.programmes.SHOW_FICHE?p_id_mod_er=24908
- For third year student (M2) of the computer science specialization, it used alongside with scala for functional programming and compilation. https://portail.telecom-bretagne.eu/portal/pls/portal/pkg_df.programmes.SHOW_FICHE?p_id_mod_er=25142

Notice that the evolution of the preparatory school toward Python instead of Caml is probably going to cause serious change in lot of French engineering school. Here (at TB) the consequence is a switch to Python as basic language while keeping Java for basic object oriented programming.

Fabien
Le 16 mars 2013 à 06:34, Valentin ROBERT <vrobert@cs.ucsd.edu> a écrit :

> My 2 cents: OCaml is used at the University of California, San Diego, as part of the undergraduate Programming Languages class (along with Python and Prolog).
> 
> cf. http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/classes/wi13/cse130-a/
> 
> - Valentin
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Jason Yeo <jasonyeo88@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm an undergrad at the National University of Singapore. We are taught to use ocaml for a Programming Language Implementation class.
> 
> Previously, the class was taught using java. Ocaml is definitely a better choice for the class because of ADTs and the expressiveness of the language.
> 
> 

---------
Fabien Dagnat -- Maître de conférences
Responsable de la filière Systèmes Logiciels et Réseaux
 Mel : fabien.dagnat@telecom-bretagne.eu
 Web : perso.telecom-bretagne.eu/fabiendagnat
 Tel : (0|33) 2 29 00 14 09 Fax : (0|33) 2 29 00 12 82
 Adr : TELECOM Bretagne
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           Technopôle Brest-Iroise - CS 83818 - 29238 Brest Cedex 3

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Milan Stanojević]

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Valentin ROBERT <vrobert@cs.ucsd.edu> wrote:
> My 2 cents: OCaml is used at the University of California, San Diego, as
> part of the undergraduate Programming Languages class (along with Python and
> Prolog).
>
> cf. http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/classes/wi13/cse130-a/
>
> - Valentin

It's similar at University of California, Los Angeles. Depending on
the professor, either SML or OCaml (plus couple of other languages) is
used for cs131, which is a required programming languages course for
computer science majors.

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Alan Schmitt]

Nicolas Barnier writes:

> We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are 
> actually currently using
> OCaml, and for which cursus. Short of finding a long enough list on the 
> OCaml websites or by
> googling, we've decided to try the caml-list for feedback. So if you are 
> involved in a CS course
> using OCaml, we would greatly appreciate that you let us know, so as to 
> help us arguing to keep
> this great language in our cursus.

There is an Ocaml course at INSA (an engineering school) in Rennes (3rd
year). There is also an university of Rennes 1 course (3rd year as well,
if I remember correctly).

Alan

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Kristopher Micinski]

Maryland teaches OCaml in our classes (PL and compilers):

http://www.cs.umd.edu/class/spring2013/cmsc330/
http://www.cs.umd.edu/class/fall2012/cmsc430/

Kris

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Nicolas Barnier
<barnier@recherche.enac.fr> wrote:
> Hi OCamlers,
>
> We use OCaml at ENAC (French Civil Aviation University) to teach the basics
> of programming and the
> design of algorithms in the first year course of CS major since 1995. The
> cursus is now under deep
> revisionand we're trying to advocate its convenience in the new cursus to
> our hierarchy and
> colleagues.
>
> We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are
> actually currently using
> OCaml, and for which cursus. Short of finding a long enough list on the
> OCaml websites or by
> googling, we've decided to try the caml-list for feedback. So if you are
> involved in a CS course
> using OCaml, we would greatly appreciate that you let us know, so as to help
> us arguing to keep
> this great language in our cursus.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Nicolas Barnier
>
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Lukasz Stafiniak]

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Evolution isn't about how much you achieve but about how well you compete.
How do we stand in relation to Haskell in education? Or is your worry
solely about giving ground to Python?

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Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Marc Pantel]

Hi,

At ENSEEIHT (Ecole Nationale Supérieure d'Electronique, Electrotechnique, Informatique, Hydraulique et Télécommunications, http://www.enseeiht.fr) in Toulouse, France, pure functional subset of OCaML is taught in 1st year of computer science and applied mathematics (L3 level, 5 ETCS, 52 hours) in Algorithms and Functional Programming courses, then it is used in the Compiler (M1 level, 5 ETCS, 52 hours) and the Static Analysis based Verification (M2 level, 3 ETCS, 30 hours) courses.

Best regards,
Marc

Le 17 mars 2013 à 22:07, Kristopher Micinski a écrit :

> Maryland teaches OCaml in our classes (PL and compilers):
> 
> http://www.cs.umd.edu/class/spring2013/cmsc330/
> http://www.cs.umd.edu/class/fall2012/cmsc430/
> 
> Kris
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Nicolas Barnier
> <barnier@recherche.enac.fr> wrote:
>> Hi OCamlers,
>> 
>> We use OCaml at ENAC (French Civil Aviation University) to teach the basics
>> of programming and the
>> design of algorithms in the first year course of CS major since 1995. The
>> cursus is now under deep
>> revisionand we're trying to advocate its convenience in the new cursus to
>> our hierarchy and
>> colleagues.
>> 
>> We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are
>> actually currently using
>> OCaml, and for which cursus. Short of finding a long enough list on the
>> OCaml websites or by
>> googling, we've decided to try the caml-list for feedback. So if you are
>> involved in a CS course
>> using OCaml, we would greatly appreciate that you let us know, so as to help
>> us arguing to keep
>> this great language in our cursus.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> -- Nicolas Barnier
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 
> -- 
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Marc Pantel
Maître de Conférences en Informatique
Assistant Professor in Computer Science
IRIT - Institut de Recherche en Informatique de Toulouse - CNRS
N7 - INPT - Université de Toulouse - France - Europe
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Rue+Charles+Camichel,+31000+Toulouse,+France&z=16
phone +(33) 534 32 2185
fax +(33) 534 32 2157
cell +(33) 676 221 687

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Christophe Garion]

Hi,

At ISAE/SUPAERO (http://supaero.isae.fr/en/), OCaML is used in a 20
hours lecture on functional programming and introduction to type
theory in the 1st year major on Artificial Intelligence and Foundations
of CS.

Best regards,

Christophe

-- 
Christophe Garion          ISAE/DMIA - SUPAERO/IN
garion@isae.fr             10 avenue Edouard Belin
Tél : (33)5 61 33 80 57    BP 54032
Fax : (33)5 61 33 83 45    31055 Toulouse Cedex 4

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Sebastien Ferre]

Hi,

At ISTIC/Université de Rennes 1, OCaml is used in different
courses at different levels:
- functional programming in 3rd year (52h)
- introduction to programming for students having a
   master in another domain (e.g., biology, chemistry)
   and preparing a master CCI (Complementary Competency in CS)
- compilation in 1st year of the CS master, in combination
   with LLVM (16h of practicals)

Best,

Sébastien Ferré


On 03/18/2013 10:52 AM, Christophe Garion wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At ISAE/SUPAERO (http://supaero.isae.fr/en/), OCaML is used in a 20
> hours lecture on functional programming and introduction to type
> theory in the 1st year major on Artificial Intelligence and Foundations
> of CS.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Christophe
>

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Yaron Minsky]

I know of few places in the US that teach Haskell in the intro
sequence.  The main concern, I think, is that teaching imperative
programming in Haskell requires too much sophistication.

That said, I think there are a decent number of places in Europe that
do teach Haskell in the intro sequence, so YMMV.

My sense is that in the US, ML has quite a good spot relative to other
languages when it comes to University teaching.  The primary languages
people teach with in elite US institutions are, I think:

- Java
- Python
- C
- OCaml/SML
- Scheme

With Java and Python having the lion's share.  C and OCaml/SML are
most often taught as part of the "advanced" intro class.

I think this is a real opportunity for OCaml.  If we can make OCaml
much easier to use for newbies who want to do something outside of
class, I think it's a real chance to reach a wider audience.  OPAM
gets us a chunk of the way, but there's more work to do beyond that.

y

On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Lukasz Stafiniak <lukstafi@gmail.com> wrote:
> Evolution isn't about how much you achieve but about how well you compete.
> How do we stand in relation to Haskell in education? Or is your worry solely
> about giving ground to Python?
>

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Simon Cruanes]

Wouldn't promoting the use of an extended standard library, like
Batteries or Core, in addition to a friendly toplevel such as utop help
making the language nicer to beginners? Opam makes it easier to use
them; the biggest source of complexity from there is imho how to build
programs (which build system to chose, how to have it use the libraries
with findlib, etc.).

All this is very easy and natural in python: the standard library is
big, you can write programs with networking, http, serialization,
databases very easily, there is no build system (nor 'annoying' typing
that prevents from writing `1 + 2.0 < 3L`). Ipython can also be used for
the 'nice toplevel' part. This is also partly true for universities that
use Java, since IDEs like eclipse provide autocompletion and hide the
build system away... Even `ghc --make` and ghci are much easier than
ocamlbuild and ocaml's toplevel (which doesn't even have readline).

So I think this explains the high threshold for starting with OCaml.

Simon

On 03/18/2013 03:00 PM, Yaron Minsky wrote:
> I know of few places in the US that teach Haskell in the intro
> sequence.  The main concern, I think, is that teaching imperative
> programming in Haskell requires too much sophistication.
> 
> That said, I think there are a decent number of places in Europe that
> do teach Haskell in the intro sequence, so YMMV.
> 
> My sense is that in the US, ML has quite a good spot relative to other
> languages when it comes to University teaching.  The primary languages
> people teach with in elite US institutions are, I think:
> 
> - Java
> - Python
> - C
> - OCaml/SML
> - Scheme
> 
> With Java and Python having the lion's share.  C and OCaml/SML are
> most often taught as part of the "advanced" intro class.
> 
> I think this is a real opportunity for OCaml.  If we can make OCaml
> much easier to use for newbies who want to do something outside of
> class, I think it's a real chance to reach a wider audience.  OPAM
> gets us a chunk of the way, but there's more work to do beyond that.
> 
> y
> 
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Lukasz Stafiniak <lukstafi@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Evolution isn't about how much you achieve but about how well you compete.
>> How do we stand in relation to Haskell in education? Or is your worry solely
>> about giving ground to Python?
>>
> 

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Anil Madhavapeddy]

OPAM is just one component of the OCaml Platform we're working on
at the moment.  The Platform design and implementation currently underway
is looking at the build/test/documentation tool situation, as well as
making it easier to utilise third party standard libraries.

This is still a work-in-progress, but if you want to participate in
thrashing out the gory details, do feel free to join the mailing list at:
http://lists.ocaml.org/listinfo/platform

A very useful aspect of the current OCaml toolchain is how little
change is needed to build all of this.  OCaml-4+ exports the compiler
libraries, exports the typed AST via bin-annot, and OPAM generally makes
it easier to rebuild the toolchain in cases where patches to the core are
required.

-anil

On 18 Mar 2013, at 09:07, Simon Cruanes <simon.cruanes.2007@m4x.org> wrote:

> Wouldn't promoting the use of an extended standard library, like
> Batteries or Core, in addition to a friendly toplevel such as utop help
> making the language nicer to beginners? Opam makes it easier to use
> them; the biggest source of complexity from there is imho how to build
> programs (which build system to chose, how to have it use the libraries
> with findlib, etc.).
> 
> All this is very easy and natural in python: the standard library is
> big, you can write programs with networking, http, serialization,
> databases very easily, there is no build system (nor 'annoying' typing
> that prevents from writing `1 + 2.0 < 3L`). Ipython can also be used for
> the 'nice toplevel' part. This is also partly true for universities that
> use Java, since IDEs like eclipse provide autocompletion and hide the
> build system away... Even `ghc --make` and ghci are much easier than
> ocamlbuild and ocaml's toplevel (which doesn't even have readline).
> 
> So I think this explains the high threshold for starting with OCaml.
> 
> Simon
> 
> On 03/18/2013 03:00 PM, Yaron Minsky wrote:
>> I know of few places in the US that teach Haskell in the intro
>> sequence.  The main concern, I think, is that teaching imperative
>> programming in Haskell requires too much sophistication.
>> 
>> That said, I think there are a decent number of places in Europe that
>> do teach Haskell in the intro sequence, so YMMV.
>> 
>> My sense is that in the US, ML has quite a good spot relative to other
>> languages when it comes to University teaching.  The primary languages
>> people teach with in elite US institutions are, I think:
>> 
>> - Java
>> - Python
>> - C
>> - OCaml/SML
>> - Scheme
>> 
>> With Java and Python having the lion's share.  C and OCaml/SML are
>> most often taught as part of the "advanced" intro class.
>> 
>> I think this is a real opportunity for OCaml.  If we can make OCaml
>> much easier to use for newbies who want to do something outside of
>> class, I think it's a real chance to reach a wider audience.  OPAM
>> gets us a chunk of the way, but there's more work to do beyond that.
>> 
>> y
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Lukasz Stafiniak <lukstafi@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Evolution isn't about how much you achieve but about how well you compete.
>>> How do we stand in relation to Haskell in education? Or is your worry solely
>>> about giving ground to Python?
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[D. LoBraico]

Yaron Minsky writes:

> I know of few places in the US that teach Haskell in the intro
> sequence.  The main concern, I think, is that teaching imperative
> programming in Haskell requires too much sophistication.

The honors CS intro sequence here at University of Chicago uses Haskell
for the first course (and then a mix of Python, C, shell-scripting, awk,
and sed for the second course).

> That said, I think there are a decent number of places in Europe that
> do teach Haskell in the intro sequence, so YMMV.
>
> My sense is that in the US, ML has quite a good spot relative to other
> languages when it comes to University teaching.  The primary languages
> people teach with in elite US institutions are, I think:
>

> - Java

No Java in the CS curriculum for majors here (a few courses geared
towards technically-minded non-majors).

> - Python

The go-to language for a lot of 200-level courses because most of the
professors and grad students are comfortable with it (for
evaluation/grading purposes) and most students have had some contact
with it.

> - C

The other go-to language (obviously).

> - OCaml/SML

Until Dave MacQueen (one of the main SML researchers/developers,
http://www.cs.uchicago.edu/people/dbm) retired this past summer he
taught a functional programming class here that used SML and Haskell (half
and half). It's unclear what plans there are to teach a dedicated FP
class moving forward.

> - Scheme

The first course in the standard intro sequence is taught with Racket
(Scheme dialect(?)) with a particular focus on functional aspects.

-Dominick

>
> With Java and Python having the lion's share.  C and OCaml/SML are
> most often taught as part of the "advanced" intro class.
>
> I think this is a real opportunity for OCaml.  If we can make OCaml
> much easier to use for newbies who want to do something outside of
> class, I think it's a real chance to reach a wider audience.  OPAM
> gets us a chunk of the way, but there's more work to do beyond that.
>
> y
>
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Lukasz Stafiniak <lukstafi@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Evolution isn't about how much you achieve but about how well you compete.
>> How do we stand in relation to Haskell in education? Or is your worry solely
>> about giving ground to Python?
>>

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Simão Sousa]

Hi,

At the University of Beira Interior, Portugal, we are using OCaml as the underlying programming language (as a tool, not as the subject) in 3 different courses:

Theory of Computation and Formal Languages
Compilers Construction 
Program Verification (includes  computational logic, decision procedure, deductive methods and program logic)

As a subject of study, Ocaml is used in the following advanced courses:
 
Theory of programming 
Certified Programming


All the best,
Simão Melo de Sousa

A 15/03/2013, às 16:49, Nicolas Barnier <barnier@recherche.enac.fr> escreveu:

> Hi OCamlers,
> 
> We use OCaml at ENAC (French Civil Aviation University) to teach the basics of programming and the
> design of algorithms in the first year course of CS major since 1995. The cursus is now under deep
> revisionand we're trying to advocate its convenience in the new cursus to our hierarchy and
> colleagues.
> 
> We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are actually currently using
> OCaml, and for which cursus. Short of finding a long enough list on the OCaml websites or by
> googling, we've decided to try the caml-list for feedback. So if you are involved in a CS course
> using OCaml, we would greatly appreciate that you let us know, so as to help us arguing to keep
> this great language in our cursus.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- Nicolas Barnier
> 
> 
> -- 
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Luca Saiu]

Le jour 2013-03-15 à 17h49, Nicolas Barnier a écrit :

> We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are
> actually currently using
> OCaml, and for which cursus.

The Computer Science Lab [1] of Université Paris 13 offers an "Advanced
Functional Programming" [2] course at the Master 2 level (fifth year),
specialty "Programming and safe programs" [3].

There is also another introductory course about functional programming
at the "Licence 3" level (third year).  Both use OCaml.

[1] http://lipn.univ-paris13.fr
[2] http://ageinghacker.net/lipn-stuff/teaching/PFA-2011/
[3] http://lipn.univ-paris13.fr/~fouquere/M2PLS/

-- 
Luca Saiu
INRIA Saclay
Personal home page: http://ageinghacker.net

Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Nicolas Braud-Santoni]

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Hi,

It is also used (at ISTIC/Rennes 1) at the M2 level, for the Static
Analysis course (Program Analysis for Software Security).

For completeness' sake, I'll add that ENS de Cachan (Rennes campus) uses
OCaml for all programming projects in first year, except for the prog.
tutorial (a different language each year) and the C/C++ and
object-oriented courses.


Regards,

Nicolas Braud-Santoni

On 18/03/2013 11:16, Sebastien Ferre wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At ISTIC/Université de Rennes 1, OCaml is used in different
> courses at different levels:
> - functional programming in 3rd year (52h)
> - introduction to programming for students having a
>   master in another domain (e.g., biology, chemistry)
>   and preparing a master CCI (Complementary Competency in CS)
> - compilation in 1st year of the CS master, in combination
>   with LLVM (16h of practicals)
>
> Best,
>
> Sébastien Ferré
>
>
> On 03/18/2013 10:52 AM, Christophe Garion wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> At ISAE/SUPAERO (http://supaero.isae.fr/en/), OCaML is used in a 20
>> hours lecture on functional programming and introduction to type
>> theory in the 1st year major on Artificial Intelligence and Foundations
>> of CS.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Christophe
>>
>



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[Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools

[Mark Raymond]

Nicolas Barnier writes:

> We were thus wondering which engineering schools and universities are 
> actually currently using OCaml, and for which cursus. Short of finding 
> a long enough list on the OCaml websites or by googling, we've decided 
> to try the caml-list for feedback. So if you are involved in a CS 
> course using OCaml, we would greatly appreciate that you let us know, 
> so as to help us arguing to keep this great language in our cursus.

The Compilers course I did at Oxford University two years ago used OCaml.