Re: AW: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com>]

OUD was part of CUFP last year, which is the Commercial part of ICFP. I
did not attend ICFP but just CUFP, and didn't find OUD or CUFP too
academic.  Did you?

/M

Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> writes:

> Sorry Anil,
>
> I did meant to criticize people who put a lot of work into organizing  
> events. On the contrary, this is highly welcome.
>
> My point is rather that you get a certain audience when an event is  
> organized as an addendum to a large academic conference. You don't get  
> the average programmer, but people with a strong academic background.  
> Or more direct: OUD is then just a side program for people who attend  
> ICFP anyway.
>
> Am 03.04.2013 15:41:47 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>> On 3 Apr 2013, at 06:10, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> > Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>> >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>> >> > Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm  
>> wondering if
>> >> > it's the same this year?
>> >> >
>> >> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being  
>> chaired by Michel Mauny this year.  The Call for Proposals hasn't  
>> gone yet out.
>> >
>> > Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the  
>> first couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic  
>> rituals.
>> 
>> Nothing stops you from organising your own group, inviting people,  
>> reserving a building, sorting out registration, invoicing sponsors,  
>> organising local facilities and lunch, recording the talks, and  
>> uploading them online.  ICFP's "rituals" take care of all of that for  
>> us (Sylvain did a big job before).
>
> This is not meant with "rituals". The ritual is to visit ICFP every  
> year. The ritual is to publish a paper every year and to bore the  
> audience, as it happens often enough. This is acceptable as being part  
> of science, but I just have some doubts whether this is the right  
> environment for a users' meeting, especially if you also want to  
> address users outside universities and research institutes.
>
>> Your cathedral analogy also doesn't make any sense to me.  I like  
>> attending a few days in one go where I can interact with OCaml, ML,  
>> Haskell, Scheme, Erlang, and F# users at the same time, see talks  
>> from industrial users at CUFP, and enjoy hearing the excitement and  
>> wails of the emerging new languages being developed by the community.
>
> As an "industrial" user I am very interested into spreading out the  
> word to the masses. We have difficulties finding programmers, which is  
> no wonder if nobody (on the street) has ever heard of the language.  
> What we need are not further talks at scientific conferences, but at  
> events attended by more average people. That could e.g. be open source  
> conferences, hacker events, etc.
>
> I put "industrial" in quotes because there isn't an industry yet. The  
> companies using OCaml are doing this for very individual reasons, and  
> there is not much cooperation (so far I can see that).
>
> As you mention CUFP, this is a different type of thing. It's a  
> collection of success stories to encourage companies (and more  
> something for CTOs and chief architects).
>
>> The rotating locations also enables worldwide users to attend,  
>> instead of just European ones.  The ICFP/CUFP at Japan a few years  
>> ago represented a big jump in attendance from the Asian community.   
>> ICFP moves across Europe, Asia and the USA, which is difficult to  
>> arrange with a single user group.
>
> Don't get me wrong, but a "travelling" conference has also many cons.  
> E.g. in general it is harder to plan the attendance (reserving time,  
> planning the costs, etc.), especially if the location is not at a  
> traffic hub.
>
>> Having said that, having more local meetups is a very positive thing.  
>> Ashish and Christophe have been tracking them here:  
>> http://ocaml.org/meetings.html
>> Do get involved and set up your own.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'm really doing enough for the  
> success of OCaml.
>
> Gerd
>
>> -anil
>> 
>> 
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