From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6822BB9C for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:11:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from pauillac.inria.fr (pauillac.inria.fr [128.93.11.35]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jANAAxh1017223 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:11:00 +0100 Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA00479 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:10:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.194]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jANAAwmu009820 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:10:59 +0100 Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s16so1335477wxc for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 02:10:58 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=FpcMiDUDpK+QMsyG098BYLoQ6IEYXj5kgIUWM7DGYMyLK3rQz/QXOr5JIRPpD0s9bQ7a0h5ZQVYYYEZBqaULtiyOE8ktmA20ZNm6md2hH795epdGWlINSe3gG/GZ+MzRSSipOvPcSsQR3nCa09o0+5Jut3f7SRUXWaohnjDdbaw= Received: by 10.64.196.19 with SMTP id t19mr5666459qbf; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 02:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.210.14 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 02:10:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <891bd3390511230210k5ff1d9aaha5cc6f9807e460cf@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:10:58 -0500 From: Yaron Minsky Sender: yminsky@gmail.com To: david.baelde@ens-lyon.org Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Mandelbrot renderer Cc: caml-list In-Reply-To: <53c655920511230000o6e21828cq@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5297_12314430.1132740658310" References: <200511230150.59163.jon@ffconsultancy.com> <53c655920511230000o6e21828cq@mail.gmail.com> X-Miltered: at concorde with ID 43844033.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Miltered: at nez-perce with ID 43844032.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Spam: no; 0.00; yaron:01 minsky:01 yminsky:01 caml-list:01 renderer:01 ocaml:01 renderer:01 ocaml:01 renders:01 coq:01 lacks:01 real-world:01 mldonkey:01 suitability:01 ocaml's:01 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_BY_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 ------=_Part_5297_12314430.1132740658310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 11/23/05, David Baelde wrote: > > 2005/11/23, Jon Harrop : > > Following Oliver's objections regarding the lack of serious software > written > > in OCaml (e.g. web servers), I have written a very serious Mandelbrot > > renderer. The program is 35 lines of OCaml and renders using OpenGL. > This > > page breaks it down and describes how it works: > > Nice job, but I don't think it has something to do with Olivier's > remarks. Serious software written in OCaml exists (Astr=E9e, Coq, ..), > no one doubts that. What lacks is mainstream serious software, and it > makes OCaml not so visible. I rather suspect that Jon was making a joke here.... People don't realize OCaml is a general purpose language: I was once > told on an IRC chan: "OCaml ? I only know one software written in > OCaml..." Also, people learn to write many fun real-world application > in C, but only "boring" scientific stuff in OCaml (when they're taught > OCaml). That's the kind of problems which was adressed. I think this really is a problem, although there are a few exceptions (mldonkey and unison come to mind.) But the lack of applications is not, I think, for lack of suitability of the language. The company where I work (quick hiring plug: http://janestcapital.com/ocaml.html) has had quite a bi= t of luck building rather interesting and practical trading and financial applications in OCaml, but those are all for internal use, so it doesn't help much for OCaml's visibility. y ------=_Part_5297_12314430.1132740658310 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 11/23/05, David Baelde <david.baelde@gmail.com> wrote:
2005/11/23, Jon Harrop <jon@ffc= onsultancy.com>:
> Following Oliver's objections regarding the= lack of serious software written
> in OCaml (e.g. web servers), I ha= ve written a very serious Mandelbrot
> renderer. The program is 35 lines of OCaml and renders using OpenG= L. This
> page breaks it down and describes how it works:

Nice= job, but I don't think it has something to do with Olivier's
remarks. S= erious software written in OCaml exists (Astr=E9e, Coq, ..),
no one doubts that. What lacks is mainstream serious software, and itmakes OCaml not so visible.

I rather suspect that Jon was making a joke here....

People = don't realize OCaml is a general purpose language: I was once
told on an= IRC chan: "OCaml ? I only know one software written in
OCaml..." Also, people learn to write many fun real-world applicat= ion
in C, but only "boring" scientific stuff in OCaml (when th= ey're taught
OCaml). That's the kind of problems which was adressed.

I think this really is a problem, although there are a few exceptions (mldonkey and unison come to mind.)  But the lack of applications is not, I think, for lack of suitability of the language.  The company where I work (quick hiring plug: http://janestcapital.com/oc= aml.html) has had quite a bit of luck building rather interesting and practical trading and financial applications in OCaml, but those are all for internal use, so it doesn't help much for OCaml's visibility.

y


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