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bh=p+84DUJ73Qv25OiFjVdnuVVm2gMNlHgm6Ee5VCG7MVg=; b=lYQOGH//M2iq70n/Ty3uDhFnm2xB0So88rZ2U34oxB2FcRvzME5FqG6nCAQw3M1381 K2lJQodiKrxc8zaexJqzJcJqKFxgJw2Bf55Rs5kc/HxKjhV+N8TATUD6zN4Vhzdvkwcu fMH7B4NN3yrNbr5T+o0GpiZIhQ/50cWmQQ6auv0TttZWZvOGRQ/qecBQAtEe5VA9LDh4 LoKwf5++rD2ambIm32ZznfHRoEZy2zY943snnbHTxPb6BK/I/RrIHIpvTX6L+/0c4F2f kvzjH01sVDH8ihdlLZ/VOD5WTe4WOKW8xOiPOzLeHmvapFpHyRVfKGQ4y0LTfrn0F/R3 ud8w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tI5lc1MbWBQo3wKvRuuiIyRVtyMOj/VpGTL47saESLX7Lc2CwOEuaD34/geDb/RXA== X-Received: by 10.107.200.151 with SMTP id y145mr15625207iof.169.1467283298855; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 03:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.29] ([166.170.22.127]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g189sm1209942ith.15.2016.06.30.03.41.37 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Jun 2016 03:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Dean Thompson X-Mailer: iPad Mail (13F69) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 06:41:37 -0400 Cc: "caml-list@inria.fr" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <89D03F21-C55E-42E8-86BC-F8E179150E31@gmail.com> References: To: Kakadu , yminsky@janestreet.com Subject: Re: [Caml-list] how to encourage adoption of OCaml? :-) Yaron, that's your cue. Dean > On Jun 30, 2016, at 6:16 AM, Kakadu wrote: >=20 > Folks, is second ppx-based edition of RWO being considered by original au= thors? >=20 > Kakadu >=20 > On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Dean Thompson > wrote: >> A few years ago, with over 30 years of programming experience including = 15 years primarily in Java, I decided I needed a new =E2=80=9Chome=E2=80=9D= programming language. I then spent a frustrating few years studying what= =E2=80=99s out there. I have felt like a man without a country. I developed= fairly serious crushes on Scala and then on Haskell, but after a few serio= us dates with them I moved on. I have read deeply about many, many more. >>=20 >> I have converged on OCaml. It is a beautiful language and a highly pract= ical functional language. Although infrastructure such as compilers, editor= /IDE support, and libraries are on the minimal side, the essentials are all= there and are lovingly maintained. Although the community is small, it is = smart, friendly, and engaged. Some amazing technology is available or work-= in-progress (such as js_of_ocaml and Mirage). >>=20 >> But this feels like a fragile new home unless we can build a bigger comm= unity! For one thing, if our community shrinks much, it may no longer be vi= able. Also, while I love 1,000 packages on opam, I want 100,000! >>=20 >> As a newcomer to the community, I have to say that there are daunting ba= rriers to a potential new user considering OCaml for a new project. If you = like starting on a new programming language with a book, as I do, you likel= y start with Real World OCaml. That book is very inspiring! But then when y= ou try to move from RWO to, well, using OCaml in the real world, you discov= er that there is no consensus on Core as a standard library, and that Camlp= 4 is deprecated. >>=20 >> It appears to me that if, instead, you come to OCaml as a potential new = user through ocaml.org, there are other barriers. It is hard for me to judg= e because I came through RWO, but it appears to me that the lack of consens= us on standard library comes up pretty quickly. I=E2=80=99m more of a langu= age manual guy than a tutorial guy, so I quickly notice that, although the = OCaml language manual is well written, has a lovely introductory flow, and = has great examples, it fairly quickly gets into terse description of langua= ge constructs while providing limited help to a beginner in developing intu= ition for the language as a whole and how best to use it. >>=20 >> This is one man=E2=80=99s experience and one man=E2=80=99s opinions. Do = others on this list feel the ramp to OCaml adoption is smoother than my imp= ression suggests? Who here is excited about making OCaml approachable to ne= wcomers? Where is the main ongoing work on this? Who are the main leaders f= rom this perspective? >>=20 >> Dean >> -------- >> Dean Thompson >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/deansthompson/ >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: >> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list >> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners >> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs >=20 > --=20 > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs