From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACD007FE36 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 09:22:12 +0200 (CEST) IronPort-PHdr: 9a23:EoP0kBaJKuz8bHmtRxrTBfj/LSx+4OfEezUN459isYplN5qZpcS+bnLW6fgltlLVR4KTs6sC0LuO9fu7EjZfuN6oizMrSNR0TRgLiMEbzUQLIfWuLgnFFsPsdDEwB89YVVVorDmROElRH9viNRWJ+iXhpQAbFhi3DwdpPOO9QteU1JXvkbvpsMeMOk1hv3mUWftKNhK4rAHc5IE9oLBJDeIP8CbPuWZCYO9MxGlldhq5lhf44dqsrtY4q3wD89pozcNLUL37cqIkVvQYSW1+ayFmrPHs4DbKRxGO639UaW4WnwBFGUCR4xjwRJb8tm3hvepwwiSAFcLzRLEwHz+l6vE4ZgXvjXIuMTIj/WjMwvZ3l7lRrQiu70hlxJXPaoyPO9J7ZqKYZswBA21bUZACBGR6HoqgYt5XXKI6NuFCoty4/gNWoA== Authentication-Results: mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; spf=None smtp.pra=rossberg@mpi-sws.org; spf=Pass smtp.mailfrom=rossberg@mpi-sws.org; spf=None smtp.helo=postmaster@hera.mpi-klsb.mpg.de Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of rossberg@mpi-sws.org) identity=pra; client-ip=139.19.1.49; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="rossberg@mpi-sws.org"; x-sender="rossberg@mpi-sws.org"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of rossberg@mpi-sws.org designates 139.19.1.49 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=139.19.1.49; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="rossberg@mpi-sws.org"; x-sender="rossberg@mpi-sws.org"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@hera.mpi-klsb.mpg.de) identity=helo; client-ip=139.19.1.49; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="rossberg@mpi-sws.org"; x-sender="postmaster@hera.mpi-klsb.mpg.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AEAAB294FXmDEBE4tchBR8rQGOECSCPYM3AoFbEAEBAQEBAQEBEQEBAQEBCAsLByEvgjIEARIBghIBAQQBIx0BASwLAQQLCxgCAhEOBwICITYGExQKh3gDDwgECq5NZ4RDAQEFhWkNhBsBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgIgQGHHoFobYJDgVAJCAEcP4JCK4IvmGk0hg2GL4ROhxGFY4gbh3Q1gjkigTdsiEWBNQEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A0AEAAB294FXmDEBE4tchBR8rQGOECSCPYM3AoFbEAEBAQEBAQEBEQEBAQEBCAsLByEvgjIEARIBghIBAQQBIx0BASwLAQQLCxgCAhEOBwICITYGExQKh3gDDwgECq5NZ4RDAQEFhWkNhBsBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgIgQGHHoFobYJDgVAJCAEcP4JCK4IvmGk0hg2GL4ROhxGFY4gbh3Q1gjkigTdsiEWBNQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.28,340,1464645600"; d="scan'208";a="184405119" Received: from infao0809.mpi-klsb.mpg.de (HELO hera.mpi-klsb.mpg.de) ([139.19.1.49]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA; 10 Jul 2016 09:21:59 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mpi-sws.org; s=mail200803; h=To:References:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject; bh=Ir58DM0UCV4ewiNiQfGGMZZROcP+HLJi3gKmEsEP8zw=; b=ZLqabrYqlAIet6MVT4/GJt48kLfz0n2e0xkR2Lz1dL9Jzzt4pkcXpFi/nMSwWl0djKCkKSK7FeQWPudBBMzkC5s4tkezA8C0erzCeqULN3oQbADcyPfllcxXGnICUBOXkKl/Ld0nE84eGwbQnP3vS4bhqclIDBokZHjPQ45gNXQ=; Received: from srv-00-126.mpi-klsb.mpg.de ([139.19.1.29]:46132 helo=zak.mpi-klsb.mpg.de) by hera.mpi-klsb.mpg.de (envelope-from ) with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) id 1bM93r-0001i0-2u; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 09:21:57 +0200 Received: from 109.125.107.239.dynamic.cablesurf.de ([109.125.107.239]:51320 helo=macbook-air.fritz.box) by zak.mpi-klsb.mpg.de (envelope-from ) with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) id 1bM93q-0001VZ-7H; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 09:21:54 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: Andreas Rossberg In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 09:21:48 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Arma=C3=ABl_Gu=C3=A9neau?= , Amir Chaudhry , Duane Johnson , Dean Thompson , "caml-list@inria.fr" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9445A645-1A01-4B74-8DB4-03C911DE3A06@mpi-sws.org> References: To: Gabriel Scherer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-MPI-Local-Sender: true Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Discourse instance for the OCaml community? (was: how to encourage adoption of OCaml?) > On Jul 9, 2016, at 22:58 , Gabriel Scherer wr= ote: >=20 > Arma=C3=ABl: Discourse looks like an interesting option. If we tried to s= etup a Discourse instance for OCaml, would you be willing to act as a moder= ator there? To paraphrase Dijkstra, IMHO email and mailing lists are an improvement ove= r more =E2=80=9Cmodern=E2=80=9D forums in almost every way, once you get pa= st the =E2=80=9Cflashiness=E2=80=9D thing: - participation without having to constantly log into yet another account (= with potential tracking), - all communication through the same tool/UI (that actually works), easy cr= oss-communication and cross-quoting, archiving in one place, etc - offline reading & writing, - proper threading (Discourse sees its lack as a =E2=80=9Cfeature"), - no annoying gamification, - open, standardised and guaranteed to still be around in 5 or 10 years fro= m now. Also, IME, email generally encourages a slower, more considerate and more c= omprehensive discussion style. Discourse has an email gateway, but last time I looked, it wasn=E2=80=99t d= eemed very usable. It would be sad to fragment the (not so huge) OCaml community just to hop o= nto the latest train in forum fashion, be it Discourse or the next thing. I= =E2=80=99m sure we would lose some people on the way (happened with Rust). = I=E2=80=99m less sure about the people we gonna win over that way. /Andreas > The Rust people have experience with Discourse as their main user forum (= I just created a topic ( https://users.rust-lang.org/t/what-are-rusts-disco= urse-hosting-plans-and-time-requirement/6462 ) to ask about the specifics o= f their hosting plan), and closer to home the Unikernel community also adop= ted discourse: >=20=20=20 > github issue about the move: > https://github.com/Unikernel-Systems/unikernel.org/issues/25 >=20 > Discourse forum: > https://devel.unikernel.org/ >=20=20=20 > (I'm adding Amir Chaudhry, who organized the Unikernel, transition, to th= e loop. He had excellent feedback when the ocamlbuild community asked simil= ar questions -- https://github.com/ocaml/ocamlbuild/issues/31 ) >=20 > I would be ready to finance a six-month experiment of using Discourse for= the OCaml community, to see what it gives, but I'm not interested in doing= the setting-up and other administration work myself, so we would need to h= ave volunteers for that. >=20 > On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 9:03 AM, Arma=C3=ABl Gu=C3=A9neau wrote: > Le 09/07/2016 =C3=A0 00:18, Fabrice Le Fessant a =C3=A9crit : > > I have no time to go on IRC, so I don't really care about it, but I thi= nk that > > we miss something in the middle between mailing-lists and IRC, which is= a > > forum that would be hosted on=20 > ocaml.org (ocaml.org/forum > ?). I used to go on > > some BB forums at some point, I am pretty sure we could use something l= ike > > that, or one of its more recent clones (but not a proprietary website).= Such > > forums are quite practical, as you can both monitor them to answer ques= tions > > immediately (=C3=A0 la IRC) without filling your inbox, and still be ab= le to come > > from time to time and look at former discussions. >=20 >=20 > If there has to be something other than IRC and the mailing list, I perso= nnally > quite like the idea of a forum. The *BB things sure have an old-school > look&feel, but discourse [1] looks nice, for example, and I think the rust > people use it for their user forum [2] (and it is free software). >=20 > I personnaly would be happy to help newcomers on such a forum. I'm also n= ot so > fond of IRC-like mediums: the density of useful and actual content is usu= ally > quite low (because of the informal aspect of the discussions), and not > structured or easily searchable. It's not because you have access to the = 500k+ > lines of backlog that the informations there are actually usable. >=20 > =E2=80=94 Arma=C3=ABl >=20 > [1]: https://www.discourse.org/ > [2]: https://users.rust-lang.org/ >=20