From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DNS_FROM_RFC_POST, DNS_FROM_SECURITYSAGE,SPF_NEUTRAL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.105]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9691BBAF for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:31:28 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgwBAEzL/UhC+VyqkWdsb2JhbACTLD4BAQEBCQsKBxEDqVF/h3wBAwEDg02DJw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,459,1220220000"; d="scan'208";a="30591778" Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.170]) by mail4-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 21 Oct 2008 21:31:27 +0200 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id y2so1053424uge.4 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:31:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Sle0LzsHbSquzBNJHeVhRvXjKIbOFr5j/TmGelBlako=; b=WANYtyPo9+pobVZVuKLghnD8gylc71S4pfN9uLSFyS7XNWn5OJHp1E/3dX6jDjAOk0 Yf/VGOm6lfmWU7AkBJTAb47uhoT6lWxLBXRi3Kdex9Bie/hGEDl6DEVR5Iov3bggKfgi npivbAxZjRct+rEP9Tb8UE7Zq78S8Ww5pL8cc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=HxIgOFm2UiUtSGbIaE+IG/itKmD3wgEGmTglttKYET3IguzIK82eK2WsoQRZIUMYG2 AW7xIZ974mrJ3RNJ5ptfZ5RGnM8k6V5KYDVS2kxnvGaR/Yh1TAMe0YonLOl4ZugWPjGo Zi73LThTAKFuzWlSftbWtXrQ0qc0LYdktFitQ= Received: by 10.86.92.7 with SMTP id p7mr53951fgb.72.1224617486694; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.61.17 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9d3ec8300810211231j40dbbef2ifdd6c2f6b84a2048@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:31:26 -0400 From: "Till Varoquaux" To: "Kuba Ober" Subject: Re: [Caml-list] What does Jane Street use/want for an IDE? What about you? Cc: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr In-Reply-To: <200810211435.51102.ober.14@osu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200810200919.41561.ober.14@osu.edu> <90823c940810210614q2536cc7fj3f8f2ee330e41b7e@mail.gmail.com> <48FDDE36.1070602@inescporto.pt> <200810211435.51102.ober.14@osu.edu> X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocaml:01 ocaml:01 emacs:01 emacs:01 interfacing:01 outcomes:01 cheers:01 beginner's:01 bug:01 dictate:98 cater:98 hyperlink:98 beginners:01 imho:01 wrote:01 I am answering as someone who works at jane street but not for jane street (i.e. this is my personal point of view but I am a Jane street employee). First of all thank you for tackling the IDE problem. Anything that's good for the Ocaml community is, by osmosis, good for companies working with Ocaml even if it is indirectly. There is a mix of Emacs,vim,texmate and other esoteric editors being used here. We are all free to choose what we use but I think a lot of us decide to cope with a steeper learning curve in order to gain more flexibility (there's a big difference between hacking as your day job and coding for a one term class). Dethroning emacs (or vim or ....) might therefor be a bit of a challenge. That being said a fair amount of advanced IDE features can be oloaded to external tools (in the spirit of ocamlwizard). I would really love to see a user friendly IDE interfacing with such a tool (with the heavy lifting done in an external tool so that other editors could also benefit cheaply from advanced features like refactoring). We tend to work with really large code bases and cannot allow editors we use to dictate the way we build and/or structure our tree. This means that emacs/vim are currently closer to our needs than eclipse/visual studio. This, however, might be very different for student in an introduction to functional programming class. I thinks both use cases exists and should be considered (maybe in different IDE's) you may decide to cater to either or even both. Whatever you do I know many of us will be following potential outcomes closely. Till On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Kuba Ober wrote: >> > I really like OcaIDE (http://ocaml.eclipse.ortsa.com:8480/ocaide/). >> > It's Eclipse plugin so Windows is fully supported (including graphical >> > debugging). IMHO it's (almost) ready for commercial development. Many >> > features are very convenient: hyperlink jumps, code outline, type >> > tooltip on mouse hoovering, completion etc. Give it a try. >> >> In other words, Dmitry's short list for Camelia is OcalIDE's feature's >> list ;-) >> >> Seriously, give it a try. It's a good way to see how things could be >> done. > > I will give it a try, prepare a feature list, and ask people to vote on > priorities. I will follow Joel Spolsky's feature selection process. This > will happen no earlier than 30 days from now, as getting Camelia into shape > is my first priority, extra features will come later. > > Cheers, Kuba > > _______________________________________________ > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: > http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list > Archives: http://caml.inria.fr > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs >