From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,DNS_FROM_RFC_POST, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB,SPF_NEUTRAL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A570EBBC4 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:06:13 +0100 (CET) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao4CAF+uq0lKfVwbkGdsb2JhbACUMT8BAQEBCQkMBxEDsWCBB414AQMBA4QXBoJyg0w X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,290,1233529200"; d="scan'208";a="23751190" Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com ([74.125.92.27]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 02 Mar 2009 19:06:12 +0100 Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 3so1851286qwe.15 for ; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:06:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=hJ3vxz5sy2yg0EGAYASnFinpCBqaEDmxpHru6YBJvV8=; b=X2UoN+mbmRUG63YNZidkO4za7h+c0v2eV69hXTMLtGnHLLPsQ/dlnlh4t+RH4tHFvF +dTXDs2M1Ht9c7TH8uNXFQBzbFm8uxcVQnOD9nDLbJ0GLjBl48LSaxEsizda9yfEs8vF NV7Lw/+A9jzdt4gFzYskGiXKZXTP57CM8o1OE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=lpDnDTMEmmi4WcLybT2/BAJA1jfpgt4wdvnSPM5mxDXYr59xMjm3AR6yNRAJ/o12Pm 3bnJrOOnTusdoEPyNgPyHmhtGOeW+CsF6WCCxMazsSR44xjUkmqIi1IoyKITmroz134V mgNLQXODTmq3Fy99Br01I8TZkJ9LO7gm95lNg= Received: by 10.224.2.202 with SMTP id 10mr7932223qak.337.1236017171705; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.100? ([64.30.3.122]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6sm3948066qwd.43.2009.03.02.10.06.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:06:10 -0800 (PST) Cc: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Message-Id: From: Alexy Khrabrov To: txr@alumni.caltech.edu In-Reply-To: <200903021621.n22GL4Pr020568@alumnus.caltech.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: [Caml-list] The new OCaml book (Objective Caml Programming Language by Tim Rentsch) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:06:08 -0500 References: <200903021621.n22GL4Pr020568@alumnus.caltech.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocaml:01 ocaml:01 cheers:01 teachable:98 agony:98 elders:98 imho:01 caml-list:01 grep:01 caml:02 objective:02 programming:03 justice:95 caltech:05 perhaps:05 Tim -- thanks for clarification. I've bought the book at once when I saw it announced here, but now have second thoughts. From what you describe, it's clear to me that Jason is the originator of the book and you did the auxiliary tasks. Noe amount of calling up publishers can substitute for teaching a class at Caltech and distilling a teachable text out of it. Jason is known for OCaml software co-developed with his students, and I only found a few messages from you on this list. IMHO, if you didn't come to an arrangement, too bad for you; but it doesn't mean you can come up with other alternatives excluding Jason. I can imagine lots of folks working for publishers doing lots of technical assistance, but not asking for their name to be on a book. If there was a disagreement, you could have excluded any material based on Jason's notes, and started from scratch; but not at 2/3 of the book. As a friend of mine likes to say: "I'm afraid you have to go see Dr. Toughshitsky about this." The era of self-publishing also shows that Amazon doesn't replace a publisher -- they don't check the rights and pedigrees of books as publishers used to. But they do have reviews where folks can say what they think of this situation. The pre-emptive self-publishing can't replace years of teaching and authorship -- the US legal system is good enough to sort this out and deliver justice, alas often after much agony and expense for all parties. I believe it's best for Tim to retract his book ASAP; otherwise it might be done by Jason and CUP via legal means. All of this is not helping OCaml. Overall, I can't help seeing that any author who isn't known on this list ends up with a questionable book -- first Smith and now Rentsch. Perhaps the elders should form a book vetting committee? As a heuristics, since the community is still rather small and coherent, the rule works -- if you can't grep much on the author in this list, ask questions! Cheers, Alexy