From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7967E7F30A; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 12:33:57 +0100 (CET) Received-SPF: None (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of amc79@cam.ac.uk) identity=pra; client-ip=131.111.8.151; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="amc79@cam.ac.uk"; x-sender="amc79@cam.ac.uk"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: None (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of amc79@cam.ac.uk) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=131.111.8.151; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="amc79@cam.ac.uk"; x-sender="amc79@cam.ac.uk"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: None (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@ppsw-51.csi.cam.ac.uk) identity=helo; client-ip=131.111.8.151; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="amc79@cam.ac.uk"; x-sender="postmaster@ppsw-51.csi.cam.ac.uk"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Am0CAOh5OFGDbwiXkWdsb2JhbABDhVCsc5IFgWEWDgEBAQEJCxIUJ4IrAQEBAwEBAQEkExsZCwULCxgMASEnAR0SBhMJCQIHh2YDCQYEAwWxCwNWiGSNWwF9LgUHgl9hA5QOg1uKPogegXI X-IPAS-Result: Am0CAOh5OFGDbwiXkWdsb2JhbABDhVCsc5IFgWEWDgEBAQEJCxIUJ4IrAQEBAwEBAQEkExsZCwULCxgMASEnAR0SBhMJCQIHh2YDCQYEAwWxCwNWiGSNWwF9LgUHgl9hA5QOg1uKPogegXI X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,800,1355094000"; d="scan'208";a="5918876" Received: from ppsw-51.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.151]) by mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 07 Mar 2013 12:33:56 +0100 X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found X-Cam-SpamDetails: not scanned X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/email/scanner/ Received: from host81-149-102-120.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.149.102.120]:61991 helo=[192.168.1.39]) by ppsw-51.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:587) with esmtpsa (PLAIN:amc79) (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) id 1UDZ5A-0000FV-X2 (Exim 4.72) (return-path ); Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:33:56 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Amir Chaudhry In-Reply-To: <20130307072202.GB26518@voyager> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 11:33:56 +0000 Cc: Fabrice Le Fessant , caml-list@inria.fr, Early Subscribers , opam-devel@lists.ocaml.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5137AB10.1020206@inria.fr> <5137C870.1010009@inria.fr> <5137CEFC.5090402@inria.fr> <20130307072202.GB26518@voyager> To: Roberto Di Cosmo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Subject: Re: [Caml-list] OPAM mailing-lists ERRATUM On 7 Mar 2013, at 07:22, Roberto Di Cosmo wrote: > I think that opam fills a major need of OCaml users: > even if it is still young, needs polishing and will > surely evolve quickly, it already provides a very > valuable tool. >=20 > But tools are useless without a user community, and > users need a place to discuss, exchange ideas, ask > for help, share tips and tricks, without fear of > asking silly questions. I agree! > Hundreds of successful free software projects use a > -devel mailing list for developer discussions, and a > -users mailing list for user exchanges. Ok, but is this a _necessary_ requirement to being successful? That's not q= uite what you state but you seem to support that suggestion. I completely = understand the usefulness of a -devel list but less so the -users list (sin= ce I'm not power user by any means). > So I strongly believe we need an opam-users list > too (and I actually do not care where the list is > hosted, as far as the hosting service is solid, and > archives are searchable and backed up). I'm not against the idea of a -users list but I'm not one of the people who= 'd use it (though perhaps I'm misunderstanding the use-case). When I have = any kind of question or confusion about something, my first resort is to go= ogle it. I'd typically look to see if others have had similar issues and w= ould expect to find things on stack-overflow, blogs and other things on the= web. This is usually sufficient for most of my problems.=20=20 The following might help explain my viewpoint. I think of a 'software commu= nity' as a series of concentric circles with creators/maintainers right in = the middle and the random public in the outermost ring. I'd argue that mai= ling lists only serve those nearer the centre (to varying degrees). Inform= ation scattered around the web, and well-indexed by search engines, better = serves those nearer the outer rings (where I'd put myself).=20=20 While I completely and whole-heartedly agree with your point about needing = a vibrant user community, I'm essentially (1) questioning what that actuall= y looks like and (2) trying to decouple it from mailing-lists. I'm basical= ly arguing that the needs once served by user lists can largely be met by o= ther means. I don't have particularly strong opinions on this (other than " should be able to get you to the answer", wherever that = is). I merely wanted to present a counterpoint to what I felt could be tak= en as 'mailing list -> community'. If you, or others, have more informatio= n or resources on community-building in open-source projects I'd be very ke= en to learn more (though perhaps we should do that off the main list). Best wishes, Amir >=20 > -- > Roberto >=20 > On Thu, Mar 07, 2013 at 12:19:24AM +0100, Fabrice Le Fessant wrote: >> Finally, there will be only one mailing-list devoted to OPAM (for >> both users and developers discussions), it is now >> opam-devel@lists.ocaml.org, and you can subscribe on this page: >>=20 >> http://lists.ocaml.org/listinfo/opam-devel >>=20 >> --Fabrice >>=20 >> On 03/06/2013 11:51 PM, Fabrice Le Fessant wrote: >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> I was proposed to either move these two mailing-lists to >>> http://lists.ocaml.org/, to improve their visibility, or to have them >>> merged into the more generic platform@lists.ocaml.org mailing-list. >>>=20 >>> I will send a new mail when we have reached a consensus on the best >>> solution, but in the meantime, don't subscribe to them as I won't be >>> able to easily move subscriptions from one system to the other one. >>>=20 >>> --Fabrice >>>=20 >>> On 03/06/2013 09:46 PM, Fabrice Le Fessant wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> I just created two mailing-lists for questions and specific >>>> discussions about OPAM, "opam-users@inria.fr" for discussions about how >>>> to use OPAM, and "opam-devel@inria.fr" for discussions about the code = of >>>> OPAM (for developers only, or interactions with them). >>>>=20 >>>> --Fabrice >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: >> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list >> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners >> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Roberto Di Cosmo >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Professeur En delegation a l'INRIA > PPS E-mail: roberto@dicosmo.org > Universite Paris Diderot WWW : http://www.dicosmo.org > Case 7014 Tel : ++33-(0)1-57 27 92 20 > 5, Rue Thomas Mann=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > F-75205 Paris Cedex 13 Identica: http://identi.ca/rdicosmo > FRANCE. Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdicosmo > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Attachments: > MIME accepted, Word deprecated > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Office location: >=20 > Bureau 320 (3rd floor) > Batiment Sophie Germain > Avenue de France > Metro Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand, ligne 14/RER C > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > GPG fingerprint 2931 20CE 3A5A 5390 98EC 8BFC FCCA C3BE 39CB 12D3=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 >=20 > --=20 > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs