Re: [Caml-list] OUD2013 part of CUFP?

[Amir Chaudhry <amc79@cam.ac.uk>]

On 3 Apr 2013, at 17:54, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> wrote:

> Am 03.04.2013 18:39:17 schrieb(en) Malcolm Matalka:
>> OUD was part of CUFP last year, which is the Commercial part of ICFP. I
>> did not attend ICFP but just CUFP, and didn't find OUD or CUFP too
>> academic.  Did you?
> 
> Can't tell about last year, but I visited both CUFP and OUD twice (independently), and it was ok (well, I gave talks on OUD). But this is not my point - I'm more worried about the audience the event attracts, and also about the character in total. I mean it's a difference whether you have an event of its own (even if small) or if it is part of a larger conference, where you certainly also have visitors just seeking entertainment for a bridge day.

The audience that attends depends on how the event is marketed.  That includes people on this list spreading the word to other commercial users of FP, irrespective of where the event is held.  Apart from a comment about academic ritual, you haven't clarified what the problem really is.  In my view, if the events are described properly and word is spread widely, then anyone who shows up *is* the intended audience.  I personally don't know anyone (academic or otherwise) who'd spend a bridge day by going to events they're not interested in (as opposed to, say, doing some tourist stuff).

amir


> You know I'm one of the guys who are always worried if the most convenient path is taken.
> 
> Gerd
> 
>> /M
>> Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> writes:
>> > Sorry Anil,
>> >
>> > I did meant to criticize people who put a lot of work into organizing
>> > events. On the contrary, this is highly welcome.
>> >
>> > My point is rather that you get a certain audience when an event is
>> > organized as an addendum to a large academic conference. You don't get
>> > the average programmer, but people with a strong academic background.
>> > Or more direct: OUD is then just a side program for people who attend
>> > ICFP anyway.
>> >
>> > Am 03.04.2013 15:41:47 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>> >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 06:10, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Am 03.04.2013 13:22:07 schrieb(en) Anil Madhavapeddy:
>> >> >> On 3 Apr 2013, at 01:24, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > Last year, OUD was part of CUFP and it worked great.  I'm
>> >> wondering if
>> >> >> > it's the same this year?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Yes, it is part of ICFP 2013 (in Boston this year), and is being
>> >> chaired by Michel Mauny this year.  The Call for Proposals hasn't
>> >> gone yet out.
>> >> >
>> >> > Too sad. OCaml not leaving the Cathedral. I liked the idea of the
>> >> first couple of OUD events of keeping some distance to academic
>> >> rituals.
>> >>
>> >> Nothing stops you from organising your own group, inviting people,
>> >> reserving a building, sorting out registration, invoicing sponsors,
>> >> organising local facilities and lunch, recording the talks, and
>> >> uploading them online.  ICFP's "rituals" take care of all of that for
>> >> us (Sylvain did a big job before).
>> >
>> > This is not meant with "rituals". The ritual is to visit ICFP every
>> > year. The ritual is to publish a paper every year and to bore the
>> > audience, as it happens often enough. This is acceptable as being part
>> > of science, but I just have some doubts whether this is the right
>> > environment for a users' meeting, especially if you also want to
>> > address users outside universities and research institutes.
>> >
>> >> Your cathedral analogy also doesn't make any sense to me.  I like
>> >> attending a few days in one go where I can interact with OCaml, ML,
>> >> Haskell, Scheme, Erlang, and F# users at the same time, see talks
>> >> from industrial users at CUFP, and enjoy hearing the excitement and
>> >> wails of the emerging new languages being developed by the community.
>> >
>> > As an "industrial" user I am very interested into spreading out the
>> > word to the masses. We have difficulties finding programmers, which is
>> > no wonder if nobody (on the street) has ever heard of the language.
>> > What we need are not further talks at scientific conferences, but at
>> > events attended by more average people. That could e.g. be open source
>> > conferences, hacker events, etc.
>> >
>> > I put "industrial" in quotes because there isn't an industry yet. The
>> > companies using OCaml are doing this for very individual reasons, and
>> > there is not much cooperation (so far I can see that).
>> >
>> > As you mention CUFP, this is a different type of thing. It's a
>> > collection of success stories to encourage companies (and more
>> > something for CTOs and chief architects).
>> >
>> >> The rotating locations also enables worldwide users to attend,
>> >> instead of just European ones.  The ICFP/CUFP at Japan a few years
>> >> ago represented a big jump in attendance from the Asian community.
>> >> ICFP moves across Europe, Asia and the USA, which is difficult to
>> >> arrange with a single user group.
>> >
>> > Don't get me wrong, but a "travelling" conference has also many cons.
>> > E.g. in general it is harder to plan the attendance (reserving time,
>> > planning the costs, etc.), especially if the location is not at a
>> > traffic hub.
>> >
>> >> Having said that, having more local meetups is a very positive thing.
>> >> Ashish and Christophe have been tracking them here:
>> >> http://ocaml.org/meetings.html
>> >> Do get involved and set up your own.
>> >
>> > Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'm really doing enough for the
>> > success of OCaml.
>> >
>> > Gerd
>> >
>> >> -anil
>> >>
>> >>
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
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