From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.105]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94175BC37 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 2009 12:23:03 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: An4BAGvYoUrUSnImkWdsb2JhbACbOwEBAQEJCwoHEwO8VoQXBQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,336,1249250400"; d="scan'208";a="46061430" Received: from mk-outboundfilter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.38]) by mail4-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 05 Sep 2009 12:23:03 +0200 X-Trace: 246887456/mk-outboundfilter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com/PIPEX/$PIPEX-ACCEPTED/pipex-temporary-group/80.47.116.10/None/gaius@gaius.org.uk X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 80.47.116.10 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: gaius@gaius.org.uk X-SMTP-AUTH: X-MUA: Apple Mail (2.936) X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AooBAFvZoUpQL3QK/2dsb2JhbAAI2EiEFwU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,336,1249254000"; d="scan'208";a="246887456" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 80-47-116-10.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com (HELO [192.168.1.3]) ([80.47.116.10]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 05 Sep 2009 11:23:02 +0100 Cc: "'Rakotomandimby Mihamina'" , Message-Id: From: Gaius Hammond To: David Allsopp In-Reply-To: <001901ca2e0d$89f619a0$9de24ce0$@metastack.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Why don't you use batteries? Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 11:23:01 +0100 References: <4A9FBF04.1060608@gmail.com> <20090904105505.055ec82e@attale.agematis.loc> <4AA0DEB4.6020307@glondu.net> <7d8707de0909040326x37d455cdi9f480b2b5da96b20@mail.gmail.com> <20090904141008.GC22690@annexia.org> <3a360f590909040738g5b481822q1c25d69548233bbb@mail.gmail.com> <4AA1EEB7.9020601@gulfsat.mg> <001901ca2e0d$89f619a0$9de24ce0$@metastack.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) X-Spam: no; 0.00; wikipedia:01 wiki:01 ocaml:01 gcc:01 pcre:01 pcre:01 ocaml:01 3.08:01 cheers:01 snap:98 appliance:98 nail:98 wrote:01 compile:01 caml-list:01 On 5 Sep 2009, at 10:44, David Allsopp wrote: > > Using a very simple analysis from > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_desktop_operating_systems, > 97.14%[1] of the computers in the world run an OS which does not > have a > "Linux"-style package manager (very sad, but true). Therefore a one- > click > installer should be a higher priority than supporting package > managers *if* > you want wider adoption of the system at all. Many developers will > be using > Windows whether they want to or not (or OS X - though I apologise if > OS X > does in fact have a package manager; please subtract 4.59% the > previous > number if it does) because they'll be in companies whose IT > infrastructure > is Windows, even if they have a few *nix boxes in the machine room > "for > those weird developers". I do most of my development on Solaris, we operate a variety of OSs in production including Solaris, various Linuxes, various Windows versions. To deploy Python code, I say to the sysadmins, "can you drop ActivePython on these boxes" and they do, it's a snap, and it all works the same everywhere. That is a big factor in language adoption. I think we can all agree that Perl and Java are horrible languages, but they're ubiquitous because of this. In my OCaml environment, Oracaml has to be built with SunStudio (because it links against C++ code, Oracle's OCCI libraries, compiled with SunStudio). Plplot has to be built with GCC. Pcre doesn't work with the Pcre library package from Blastwave (this is a repository of Solaris software a la GODI), you have to compile the C from source and forego the benefits of package management. Plplot isn't happy with OCaml 3.08 and Oracaml isn't happy with 3.11 (tho' this is fixable, it's a symptom of it being abandoned, do I dare rely on it for real work?). I could go on... For me the benefits of OCaml do outweigh these factors for my own use - that is code written by me for my own and my team's use on the main machine we share for our work. I can't even contemplate using OCaml to be deployed elsewhere in the organization - I'd have to become nearly a full time build engineer to support it! > Also personally, when I come across a piece of software that offers a > live-CD or virtual appliance as a means of demonstration it makes me > look > elsewhere as to me it implies that installation and maintenance is so > complicated that it's made the developers go to the trouble of > building a > demo PC (albeit virtual!) just to guarantee that it works properly > first > time... but that's probably "just me". No, you've hit the nail on the head here. Cheers, G