From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EE9A81799 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 18:17:49 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of kosmo.zb@gmail.com) identity=pra; client-ip=209.85.217.177; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="kosmo.zb@gmail.com"; x-sender="kosmo.zb@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of kosmo.zb@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.177 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.217.177; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="kosmo.zb@gmail.com"; x-sender="kosmo.zb@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@mail-lb0-f177.google.com) identity=helo; client-ip=209.85.217.177; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="kosmo.zb@gmail.com"; x-sender="postmaster@mail-lb0-f177.google.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsACAJT971HRVdmxlGdsb2JhbABbgztEDKxFkiqBDggWDgEBAQEHCwsJEiqCJAEBAQQBAj0BGxILAQMMBgULDQ0hIQEBBQwBBQEKBAENBhMSh2sBAw8Mm0qMT4J/hE4KGScDCmSHdAEFDI0JgR4LgQwzB4QAA5UYXoFpgSmKfoNBFimEOzuBNQ X-IPAS-Result: AsACAJT971HRVdmxlGdsb2JhbABbgztEDKxFkiqBDggWDgEBAQEHCwsJEiqCJAEBAQQBAj0BGxILAQMMBgULDQ0hIQEBBQwBBQEKBAENBhMSh2sBAw8Mm0qMT4J/hE4KGScDCmSHdAEFDI0JgR4LgQwzB4QAA5UYXoFpgSmKfoNBFimEOzuBNQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,736,1367964000"; d="scan'208";a="22149310" Received: from mail-lb0-f177.google.com ([209.85.217.177]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 24 Jul 2013 18:17:48 +0200 Received: by mail-lb0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 10so639140lbf.8 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 09:17:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fFL/ivFTpfBZdMwhsCG3JEIkOA+mW/3wn1INvGUS9UY=; b=028h5INABq08bbiDR4PU059fmDs8FO/pWaXq5P7YInnhmgzWOkkiU+fUfzVEy1osAA nBfBvWN80VgYvdmXtADBKgzmlDR1hNYM5CU0gzNS+jpBXkiqzYjX2tzVl3gZ3406TVIt jKGPGrB6kyfMS9DQ2uh3YjMuGOOL43j6pM6dRvFsvWC8k2sNORUtLhVsibx5rPJ6AS6u WwTJCpK3KYRPMkUMmD2KMxm07xdqUmSER3ma3zLHQMrjuifpTm6bURKYcBpew4a7ez3X wiQifDlBoMS94RZeofGMX/btwuCigOziV9TuXbbNH7HivZ30oaGUbUQh+55IhNUGxlLJ comg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.36.6 with SMTP id m6mr2742118laj.65.1374682667618; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 09:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.202.5 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 09:17:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51EFFE3A.30603@gmail.com> References: <1374669368.25411.5@samsung> <1B6BB035-9909-4F0C-9DEA-F713B977A467@ocamlpro.com> <51EFFE3A.30603@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 17:17:47 +0100 Message-ID: From: David Sheets To: Matej Kosik <5764c029b688c1c0d24a2e97cd764f@gmail.com> Cc: O Caml Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Validation-by: kosmo.zb@gmail.com Subject: Re: AW: [Caml-list] GODI is shutting down On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Matej Kosik <5764c029b688c1c0d24a2e97cd764f@gmail.com> wrote: > On 24/07/13 15:44, Thomas Gazagnaire wrote: >>> In the past days I made the experience that OPAM advocates never answer= to any of my objections. When I said "GODI has feature xy, why doesn't OPA= M has this too?" the only response is something like "OPAM has this great G= ithub-based workflow" (the most harmless variant). Discussion impossible. >> >> Let's try to be constructive then. I've tried to look for all your recen= t objections, let me known if I have missed some. >> >> 1. " Instead, there was later questionable behavior from Ocamlpro, namel= y that they copied (at least parts of) GODI packages, without having asked = for permission. (In particular, there was evidence that they copied the pac= kage description texts.) This might be legal, but the reader will understan= d that this is unfriendly, and unneccessarily aggressive. At that point it = was clear that they are trying to push GODI aside, even with questionable m= eans." >> >> Some of the initial package descriptions were indeed copied from the des= cription files of the corresponding GODI packages (which have been often it= self copied from the author website). I was not aware of this when the desc= riptions got integrated in the repository, and I've removed them as soon as= the issue has been raised on the GODI mailing list [1, 8 oct 2012] and [2,= 8 oct 2012]. To avoid such issue in the future we are planning to clarify = the licensing scheme on all the metadata published on the "official reposit= ory" (we would like to make it public domain if possible, but it's maybe to= o late). >> >> [1] https://godirepo.camlcity.org/pipermail/godi-list/2012-October/00351= 7.html >> [2] https://godirepo.camlcity.org/pipermail/godi-list/2012-October/00352= 1.html >> >> 2. "It doesn't matter that OPAM lacks core functions like deleting all f= iles when a package is removed" >> >> I was very surprised when I've read that (and I though it was just an un= related rant), but as you seem to insist I guess you are serious. Where did= you read that ? Of course, OPAM deletes the files it has installed! >> >> - It removes $prefix/lib/, $prefix/doc/ (and the other usual= paths associated to a package, but keeps $share/ for future reinstal= lations) and it calls whatever removal scripts the user has registered (whi= ch is 'ocamlfind remove ' for most of the packaged libaries -- which = is still useful when you have C stubs to remove in $prefix/stublibs), and; >> >> - It also removes the files specified in an optional `.install` fi= le located at the root of the directory (which is useful when you have bina= ries). We have some experimental features to scan the filesystem before and= after the installation, and update the corresponding `.install` file= with the difference but it's quite slow (because of the filesystem scannin= g) and this does not work when the number of jobs is greater than 1. But I = would prefer to let that task to the packagers (or to their build-system, s= ee for instance that nice omake extension[3]) >> >> [3] https://github.com/smondet/dircmp/blob/master/OMakeroot#L175 >> >> 3. "There is the QA question, at least for the main repository" >> >> This is on-going work. The first objective was to gather as much package= s as possible, and to make people start to rely on other people packages in= stead of restarting each projects from scratch. Now we are starting to focu= s on the QA side, as Anil already have already told you in a previous email= , as we slowly replace our old private Jenkins setup by a more advanced, fu= lly written in OCaml -- but still experimental -- testing platform. Look at= the the 4.00.1 on linux results they are the more meaningful for now on, m= ore than 90% of the packages are working fine (and yes, that's definitely n= eeds to be improved, but I would say that's not so bad). >> >> https://ocaml-www3.ocamllabs.cl.cam.ac.uk/github/OCamlPro/opam-repository >> >> Then, as discussed on [4], we plan to select the package with the right = level of QA to be part of the upcoming "OCaml Platform". The platform itsel= f will either be a separate repository, or a separate branch or simply a vi= rtual package in the main repository -- as explained in [4] (and on other t= hreads of the platform list) the contents of the platform will be driven by= QA criteria. >> >> [4] http://lists.ocaml.org/pipermail/platform/2013-February/000001.html >> >> 4. "how well a library is integrated into the OS" >> >> Currently, with a minimal support. We are working on improving that. Loo= k at the `depext` field in the sqlite3-ocaml package[5], that you can query= using the command-line: >> >> $ opam install sqlite3-ocaml -e debian,wheezy,amd64 >> libsqlite3-dev >> >> The goal is to use that metadata to "drive" the installation/checks of e= xternal dependencies, depending on the user host and OS. The short-term goa= l is to display nice error messages though. >> >> [5] https://github.com/OCamlPro/opam-repository/blob/master/packages/sql= ite3-ocaml.2.0.4/opam >> >> 5. "lack of windows support and binary packages" >> >> OPAM supports for Windows is not so good at the moment indeed. However, = things are getting better as we are improving the support for windows (we h= ave a private version which compiles and run OK on cygwin for basic package= s) and we have an experimental binary support that we are still prototyping= [6]. GODI and WODI are clearly in advance in this domain (but I recall tha= t WODI is a relatively new project). >> >> [6]. https://github.com/venator/opam/tree/binary >> >> 6. "No, all package managers should unite in this point, and only accept >> packages with oasis support. (Btw, that's homework for me.) Just do it t= he >> same way as we did when requiring findlib." >> >> I disagree, people should be free to use whatever system they want. > > The above argument, in general, is invalid. [citation needed] >> >> 7. About the generation of OPAM files from _oasis >> >> I am not totally convinced by all the arguments I seen so far. Making a = new release because a package constraint is wrong seems not to be a good id= ea to me. A large proportion of pull request in the the package metadata's = repository is about fixing such dependency constraints (which are discovere= d by our testing tools). I don't have a yet a good story to bring that info= rmation back into the package, but I'd say that I'm not very fond of mixing= everything together: let's keep the dependency constraints part of the pac= kage system and the build instruction part of the build system -- that's mu= ch simpler that way. >> >> 8. "You are a victim of OPAM's campaign." >> >> Sorry, I have no facts to answer here. >> >> >> Best, >> Thomas > > > -- > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs