From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 581DA8179A for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 10:42:38 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of jun.furuse@gmail.com) identity=pra; client-ip=74.125.82.47; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="jun.furuse@gmail.com"; x-sender="jun.furuse@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of jun.furuse@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.47 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=74.125.82.47; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="jun.furuse@gmail.com"; x-sender="jun.furuse@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@mail-wg0-f47.google.com) identity=helo; client-ip=74.125.82.47; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="jun.furuse@gmail.com"; x-sender="postmaster@mail-wg0-f47.google.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Am8CAHCS71FKfVIvk2dsb2JhbABbhAvBAIEOCBYOAQEBAQcLCwkUBCSCJAEBBAFAARsNAQ8BAwELBgULDS4iAREBBQEcBhMUh2kBAwkGmyuMT4J/hEkKGScNZId0AQUMj24HhAADiSiON49oFimERy8 X-IPAS-Result: Am8CAHCS71FKfVIvk2dsb2JhbABbhAvBAIEOCBYOAQEBAQcLCwkUBCSCJAEBBAFAARsNAQ8BAwELBgULDS4iAREBBQEcBhMUh2kBAwkGmyuMT4J/hEkKGScNZId0AQUMj24HhAADiSiON49oFimERy8 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,734,1367964000"; d="scan'208";a="22093388" Received: from mail-wg0-f47.google.com ([74.125.82.47]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 24 Jul 2013 10:42:37 +0200 Received: by mail-wg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id j13so122749wgh.26 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:42:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=40EI8ICrEq4SIZhHqP/762WPYj3wg66NaPAfTnNeU3I=; b=xJmm9piW6BkG/1ZyZsF152ZcdxPK8Gem/eSvjL5sMpWRhP/bqoKKtRS/67e4gJEnU8 9vkFlqTvnb2h+GcPDlM7CQ5UIaX1tGW7gCfBY2S+D+sdqOtMyWee+xqBeerP6lY2uzU7 Fpzk3fVeSzRbqyjnc/yxUzWdPpc6zgAwZ94vlPOvz+sPrzpKlDq7m5Y0VpUpJIVdzBfm 84OeIU2RBe/vUWS1xSr7FLJsHnI2u6m6shOZvWgL1XNZ97phFd+cUjQdcTthG2pAAXAc jCHziRLXhakTNXQ/c4GBTSv6kGhBpuH5ABItJM7TL5THUvB2L89EO9wV9hX0DOuavoZl 7wlw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.82.232 with SMTP id l8mr1834929wiy.23.1374655357264; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.136.140 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.136.140 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:42:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1e141e2803d9dec6a8231dd4f16dd173.squirrel@gps.dynxs.de> <20130723090713.GA9274@notk.org> <51EF33FE.2060407@riken.jp> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 16:42:37 +0800 Message-ID: From: Jun Furuse To: Fabrice Le Fessant Cc: Francois Berenger , caml-list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04428b0c42289a04e23de4ce Subject: Re: [Caml-list] GODI is shutting down --f46d04428b0c42289a04e23de4ce Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Fabrice, Have you discussed your idea of OPAM with Gerd or GODI community before starting the project? Was there no way of working together, to improve GODI, or invite Gerd to OPAM development? Best regards, Jun On Jul 24, 2013 3:04 PM, "Fabrice Le Fessant" wrote: > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:55 AM, Francois Berenger wrote: > >> On 07/23/2013 06:07 PM, Adrien Nader wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >> > [...] >> >> To be honest, I've never understood why opam was "started". >>> >> >> Contracted development, I guess. > > > Yes, mostly. OCamlPro have had a contract with Jane Street since its > creation, on improving the OCaml environment, to the benefits of both Jane > Street and the whole OCaml community. The creation of a new package manager > was identified very early as a strategic element, to improve the usability > of OCaml, and increase its popularity. Thus, we started working on Opam, in > a collaboration between OCamlPro and INRIA (within the DORM european > project), with deep inputs from the Mancoosi team at University Paris > 7/IRILL (working at improving Debian package management), and later joined > by OCamllabs as soon as it was created. > > Of course, Opam would not have been the same without GODI: in its design, > Opam directly benefited from the experience of GODI, as we tried to keep > GODI's strengths and to find better alternatives to avoid its weaknesses. > We also studied some other package managers, for OCaml (odb, yypkg, etc.) > and for other languages/systems (Cabal, CPAN, ArchLinux, etc.). Finally, we > made sure we would be able to easily port GODI's packages to Opam, as the > number of available packages from the beginning is an important criteria > for adoption of a package management tool by end users. > > Clearly, both GODI and Opam are technically challenging software, but they > are not focusing on solving the same technical challenges (as explained by > Thomas), although the functionalities they provide are globally similar. > > As a side story, 15 years ago, I wrote one of the first open-source video > players for Divx files on Linux, in C++ with optimized MMX/SSE assembly > routines for zooming and so on. I was particularly proud of it, as it was a > domain in which I had little experience (but great interest ;-) ). I got a > few hundred users, when mplayer was released and all my users progressively > switched to it. Mplayer had support for some more video formats (but > nothing I could not implement), and some of my assembly routines were much > more efficient. Nonetheless, since then, I have been a happy user of > mplayer, and it is now much better technically than whatever I could have > done with my own player. This is typical of the software world, older > projects are superseded by new projects, not always better on all technical > grounds, but providing a different user experience or pushed by a larger > team of developers. > > --Fabrice > > --f46d04428b0c42289a04e23de4ce Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Fabrice,

Have you discussed your idea of OPAM with Gerd or GODI community before = starting the project? Was there no way of working together, to improve GODI= , or invite Gerd to OPAM development?

Best regards,=A0
Jun

On Jul 24, 2013 3:04 PM, "Fabrice Le Fessan= t" <Fabrice.Le_fessa= nt@inria.fr> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:55 AM, Francois Berenger <beren= ger@riken.jp> wrote:
On 07/23/2013 06:07 PM, Adrien Nader wrote:<= br>
Hi,
> [...]

To be honest, I've never understood why opam was "started".

Contracted development, I guess.

Yes, mostl= y. OCamlPro have had a contract with Jane Street since its creation, on imp= roving the OCaml environment, to the benefits of both Jane Street and the w= hole OCaml community. The creation of a new package manager was identified = very early as a strategic element, to improve the usability of OCaml, and i= ncrease its popularity. Thus, we started working on Opam, in a collaboratio= n between OCamlPro and INRIA (within the DORM european project), with deep = inputs from the Mancoosi team at University Paris 7/IRILL (working at impro= ving Debian package management), and later joined by OCamllabs as soon as i= t was created.

Of course, Opam would not have been the same without GO= DI: in its design, Opam directly benefited from the experience of GODI, as = we tried to keep GODI's strengths and to find better alternatives to av= oid its weaknesses. We also studied some other package managers, for OCaml = (odb, yypkg, etc.) and for other languages/systems (Cabal, CPAN, ArchLinux,= etc.). Finally, we made sure we would be able to easily port GODI's pa= ckages to Opam, as the number of available packages from the beginning is a= n important criteria for adoption of a package management tool by end users= .

Clearly, both GODI and Opam are technically challenging= software, but they are not focusing on solving the same technical challeng= es (as explained by Thomas), although the functionalities they provide are = globally similar.

As a side story, 15 years ago, I wrote one of the first= open-source video players for Divx files on Linux, in C++ with optimized M= MX/SSE assembly routines for zooming and so on. I was particularly proud of= it, as it was a domain in which I had little experience (but great interes= t ;-) ). I got a few hundred users, when mplayer was released and all my us= ers progressively switched to it. Mplayer had support for some more video f= ormats (but nothing I could not implement), and some of my assembly routine= s were much more efficient. Nonetheless, since then, I have been a happy us= er of mplayer, and it is now much better technically than whatever I could = have done with my own player. This is typical of the software world, older = projects are superseded by new projects, not always better on all technical= grounds, but providing a different user experience or pushed by a larger t= eam of developers.

--Fabrice
=A0
--f46d04428b0c42289a04e23de4ce--