From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B01927EE8A for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:00:15 +0100 (CET) Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of yminsky@janestreet.com) identity=pra; client-ip=38.105.200.229; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="yminsky@janestreet.com"; x-sender="yminsky@janestreet.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of yminsky@janestreet.com designates 38.105.200.229 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=38.105.200.229; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="yminsky@janestreet.com"; x-sender="yminsky@janestreet.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@tot-dmz-mxout1.janestreet.com) identity=helo; client-ip=38.105.200.229; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="yminsky@janestreet.com"; x-sender="postmaster@tot-dmz-mxout1.janestreet.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AloBAJccR1EmacjlmWdsb2JhbABDxR6BSh4OAQEBAQEICwsHFCiCJAEBBUABATAHAQ8LCwMKLiEBEgEFARwGEwgOh2wDDwOjb4pyhDsBBYRkDYlVBoxMgkkHg0CVAYFghX2Fa4M4FimESQ X-IPAS-Result: AloBAJccR1EmacjlmWdsb2JhbABDxR6BSh4OAQEBAQEICwsHFCiCJAEBBUABATAHAQ8LCwMKLiEBEgEFARwGEwgOh2wDDwOjb4pyhDsBBYRkDYlVBoxMgkkHg0CVAYFghX2Fa4M4FimESQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,865,1355094000"; d="scan'208";a="6900507" Received: from mx5.janestreet.com (HELO tot-dmz-mxout1.janestreet.com) ([38.105.200.229]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 18 Mar 2013 15:00:14 +0100 Received: from [172.27.22.15] (helo=tot-smtp) by tot-dmz-mxout1.janestreet.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UHabj-0005yV-EM for caml-list@inria.fr; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 10:00:11 -0400 Received: from tot-dmz-mxgoog1.delacy.com ([172.27.224.14] helo=mxgoog2.janestreet.com) by tot-smtp with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UHabj-0003PC-D8 for caml-list@inria.fr; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 10:00:11 -0400 Received: from mail-ea0-f198.google.com ([209.85.215.198]) by mxgoog2.janestreet.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UHabj-0000mC-7q for caml-list@inria.fr; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 10:00:11 -0400 Received: by mail-ea0-f198.google.com with SMTP id d10so8064983eaj.9 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 07:00:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=janestreet.com; s=google; h=x-received:mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=dHeAnNHFilTymeve6weu8btzpDh4nWajQh29yoxARVE=; b=Ln2BMgkDbQkGPFUQpgl9Fbc+F8s8SkywXyrfGx6KONvbUc72UOqKNi6XGfeNwo4f+J lSnEttNpYbE+356WS0tagLMUSHsDw9NXcHooPuYECcG708BbzCAq4DrRr0k3Rf6nfclJ lbvRauAAqZYV4CogEs/dBaipFtvhvOogRroU0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=dHeAnNHFilTymeve6weu8btzpDh4nWajQh29yoxARVE=; b=j8RrHzfolltVJKKc61JtqgHkTt8mtMDlg1o3HNbg/xJgVnV6NIX8DeXYRRY6+RT+J3 ZmVMpB1LlchLFbXleUPH7lFCsplqGC8uJ172dS40SIHAVB/fDTWICgdHA3TMcEHnviEA Y8pb5p6+r0Q2/FcmhzZE0L0FbHeX8vUVkqHeWYEJbHETJp9+tQICEFtwQquVu02cl1N/ ScI6UKyqF5LuPDvDz+ptm08wztaU0kWy0lDsOcZJD6gaYByJePVEiWJDCg8W8SqeF6Ai Akal/FywivKGTsTYPZZlbIgAi9GafpKDY3vVR1/kn6qXpE1hmqFVDV/ImBV3OJ4S8gFr aFjQ== X-Received: by 10.14.206.132 with SMTP id l4mr23160945eeo.38.1363615210665; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 07:00:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.14.206.132 with SMTP id l4mr23160927eeo.38.1363615210588; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 07:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.4.140 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 07:00:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5143510E.2000009@recherche.enac.fr> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 10:00:10 -0400 Message-ID: From: Yaron Minsky To: Lukasz Stafiniak Cc: "caml-list@inria.fr" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnE25EBx7+z6ithgdBl2PEhPLhbGI6KdBX7ffqlYeKwt7zBa6EcdkTdxyTW9Kv38fol3Ytg7+yFalPRn5er3Za2je0Tx1HvaqLC9H8TIOoUS4lzIQJdVBRkIo3sdJggEzLLNZYoeKu6JC4GyaRRenENYqHMCQ== Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Use of OCaml in universities and engineering schools I know of few places in the US that teach Haskell in the intro sequence. The main concern, I think, is that teaching imperative programming in Haskell requires too much sophistication. That said, I think there are a decent number of places in Europe that do teach Haskell in the intro sequence, so YMMV. My sense is that in the US, ML has quite a good spot relative to other languages when it comes to University teaching. The primary languages people teach with in elite US institutions are, I think: - Java - Python - C - OCaml/SML - Scheme With Java and Python having the lion's share. C and OCaml/SML are most often taught as part of the "advanced" intro class. I think this is a real opportunity for OCaml. If we can make OCaml much easier to use for newbies who want to do something outside of class, I think it's a real chance to reach a wider audience. OPAM gets us a chunk of the way, but there's more work to do beyond that. y On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Lukasz Stafiniak wrote: > Evolution isn't about how much you achieve but about how well you compete. > How do we stand in relation to Haskell in education? Or is your worry solely > about giving ground to Python? >