Re: Problems to get larger user base ... (Re: [Caml-list] OCaml's variables)

[Jeff Meister <nanaki@gmail.com>]

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This is great! I never played with it myself, but now that I'm looking at
it, I really like it. I've been looking for a place to direct someone who
wants to learn, and this looks like the one! :)


On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Francois Berenger <berenger@riken.jp>wrote:

> On 05/29/2013 11:39 AM, Jeff Meister wrote:
>
>> I hesitate to recommend Part I of the OCaml Manual as an introduction
>> for new users because it is so terse and dense. It describes the core
>> language on a single HTML page. Powerful features of great consequence
>> are covered rapidly. For example, variant types are relegated to a
>> single section with only three example types.
>>
>> I do not mean to complain about the OCaml Manual; its succinctness is a
>> virtue. It assumes I am competent and does not waste my time. Nearly
>> every sentence in Part I conveys vital information and should be read
>> carefully. But people are not used to engaging with tutorials in this
>> manner. They expect motivation (explanation of the reasoning behind
>> various features) and hand-holding, which they can skip over or consult
>> depending on their level of understanding. Ideally, they want to see an
>> example that does something similar to whatever they're currently
>> working on.
>>
>> Most people actively involved in the OCaml community right now have
>> either read the language reference (i.e., Part II) or are capable of
>> doing so if they wanted to. Many of them have substantial background in
>> programming language theory. But the majority of programmers cannot
>> learn the language in this way. I think appealing to them requires a
>> more didactic method.
>>
>
> Maybe this one then:
>
> http://try.ocamlpro.com/
>
> ;)
>
>  On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Francois Berenger <berenger@riken.jp
>> <mailto:berenger@riken.jp>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 05/28/2013 11:44 AM, oliver wrote:
>>
>>         On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:17:04AM +0900, Francois Berenger wrote:
>>
>>             On 05/27/2013 09:38 PM, Mr. Herr wrote:
>>
>>
>>                 Am 27.05.2013 10 <tel:27.05.2013%2010>:53, schrieb Erik
>>
>>                 de Castro Lopo:
>>
>>                     Mr. Herr wrote:
>>
>>                         I think the biggest problem is you generally can
>>                         only learn FP and/or Ocaml at
>>                         university, because:
>>
>>                         The FP terminology is at first (and a long time
>>                         after starting learning it), without
>>                         a teacher, not understandable.
>>
>>                     Sorry, that's simply not true.
>>
>>                     I studied my last univeristy course in 1992. I
>>                     picked up Ocaml in 2004
>>                     and Haskell in 2008. Before Ocaml, the only
>>                     functional language I had
>>                     used was scheme in the late 1980s.
>>
>>
>>                 Scheme is terribly functional, so to say, and is
>>                 absolutely immerged in the Lispy slang.
>>                 All your knowlegde in C, Java, PHP, Assembler, Tcl/Tk,
>>                 Pascal ... will not help you
>>                 there.
>>
>>                 I started as an IBM /370 Systems Admin in the late
>>                 nineties, and it took me months of
>>                 reading in 2012
>>                 to get some understanding about what the heck the scheme
>>                 people are talking about.
>>
>>                 Scheme is even a better example for the problems non
>>                 university learners encounter,
>>                 than Ocaml, IMO.
>>
>>
>>             A very good book on scheme (which is also quite a deep
>>             introduction
>>             to computer science if you read the whole thing in fact):
>>
>>             "structure and interpretation of computer programs"
>>
>>             http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/_**_full-text/book/book.html<http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/__full-text/book/book.html>
>>
>>             <http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/**full-text/book/book.html<http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html>
>> >
>>
>>         [...]
>>
>>         As language introduction it is too much text.
>>         It is meant as introduction to computer science.
>>
>>
>>     But what an introduction. ;)
>>
>>
>>         AFAIK scheme was developed for this task.
>>
>>         The scheme standard is not so hard to read, and it has only 50
>>         pages.
>>         Thats IMHO better if someone looks for a introduction to the
>>         language
>>         only.
>>
>>         For comparison: OCaml ref-man: 554 pages and IMHO not a good
>>         starting
>>         point. IMHO better are some of the introductional books out there,
>>         e.g. OCaml-Ora-book and jason Hickeys book.
>>         After that then the Refman.
>>
>>
>>     Honestly, I think "Part I An introduction to OCaml"
>>     from "The OCaml system release 4.00
>>     Documentation and user’s manual"
>>     at
>>     http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/**__manual-ocaml/<http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/__manual-ocaml/>
>>
>>     <http://caml.inria.fr/pub/**docs/manual-ocaml/<http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/>
>> >
>>     is enough for a start.
>>
>>     I think you can even skip the Objects chapter in there.
>>     And that's only pages 9 to 33 in the PDF version of the document.
>>
>>     Regards,
>>     F.
>>
>>
>>     --
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>> >
>>     Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/**__ocaml_beginners<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/__ocaml_beginners>
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>> >
>>     Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-**__bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-__bugs>
>>     <http://caml.inria.fr/bin/**caml-bugs<http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>

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