From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by c5ff346549e7 (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6C4E5D5 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2018 20:48:10 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,283,1539640800"; d="scan'208,217";a="357459565" Received: from sympa.inria.fr ([193.51.193.213]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 26 Nov 2018 21:48:09 +0100 Received: by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix, from userid 20132) id F1E158253E; Mon, 26 Nov 2018 21:48:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FEB9824CF for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2018 21:48:05 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; spf=None smtp.pra=yawar.amin@gmail.com; spf=Pass smtp.mailfrom=yawar.amin@gmail.com; spf=None smtp.helo=postmaster@mail-io1-f43.google.com IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3ATu3fgxJfXdp0XzmnzNmcpTZWNBhigK39O0sv0rFi?= =?us-ascii?q?tYgeKPjxwZ3uMQTl6Ol3ixeRBMOHs6IC07KempujcFRI2YyGvnEGfc4EfD4+ou?= =?us-ascii?q?JSoTYdBtWYA1bwNv/gYn9yNs1DUFh44yPzahANS47xaFLIv3K98yMZFAnhOgpp?= =?us-ascii?q?POT1HZPZg9iq2+yo9JDffwZFiCChbb9uMR67sRjfus4KjIV4N60/0AHJonxGe+?= =?us-ascii?q?RXwWNnO1eelAvi68mz4ZBu7T1et+ou+MBcX6r6eb84TaFDAzQ9L281/szrugLd?= =?us-ascii?q?QgaJ+3ART38ZkhtMAwjC8RH6QpL8uTb0u+ZhxCWXO9D9QKsqUjq+8ahkVB7oiD?= =?us-ascii?q?8GNzEn9mHXltdwh79frB64uhBz35LYbISTOfFjfK3SYMkaSHJOUcZfVSNPAo2y?= =?us-ascii?q?YYgSAeQfIelVtJPyq0cUoBakGQWgGOHixzlVjXH2x6061OEhHBnE0wM6EdMBqm?= =?us-ascii?q?7Up8jpOacXUOC1yrTDwDLDbvxM1zby8pLIfgo7rvGJXLJwd9HcyUYqFwzfj1WQ?= =?us-ascii?q?rZbpMC+S1uQIqmWW6fdrW+yoi24isQ5xoz6vy98riobVnI0Vz1TE+T9+wIYvKt?= =?us-ascii?q?20UE97Ydi+EJtRrS6WLYV2Qtk6T2FnuSY61r0GuYOgcyQQ1JsnwBvfZvqaeIaL?= =?us-ascii?q?+hLuTPidLSt8iX5/e7+yhwy+/VWhx+D9TMW531hHoyxYmdfWrH8NzQbc6s2fR/?= =?us-ascii?q?t94Eih3TGP2hjW6u5eIEA0kbPXK58mwrItj5YTv0vOEyHslEX5i6+WcUok+uy2?= =?us-ascii?q?5Oj9frrmoZqcO5d1igH4LKsuhtSyDfokPgUKRWSW+uSx2Kf+8UD4QbhGlPI7n6?= =?us-ascii?q?fBvJDfP8sbp6q5AwFP0oYk7hayFzen384WnHYdNlJJYgiIj43oO1HIO/34AvK/?= =?us-ascii?q?jE6tkDdv3fzJIrrhApDVInjZjLjhZap961JbyAcr0d9Q/ZdUCrUYLPL3W0/xr8?= =?us-ascii?q?DYAwQiMw20xubnEM9y2pkfWWKJGK+ZMbndvUWG5uI1cKGwY9o3pTL8IrAB7uHn?= =?us-ascii?q?iXtxzV0Aeaigm58ed3m8GtxiIl3HJ3T21IQvC2AP6zs3U+XwwHSHUDgbM2e7QK?= =?us-ascii?q?smoDg+CYSOAoLKR4Tri7uEinToVqZKb3xLXwjfWUzjcJ+JDrJVMHrLc51R1wcc?= =?us-ascii?q?XL3kcLcPkBSntQv00b1id7OG9SgRtJal399wtbSKyUMCsAdsBsHY6FmjCnlulz?= =?us-ascii?q?pRFTAz1aF750d6zwXbiPUqs7ljDdVWoshxfEI6OJrblbEoDtnzXkfAeY7MRgr9?= =?us-ascii?q?BNqhBj41Q5Q6xNpcO0s=3D?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0B+BAABW/xbgCumVdFkHQEBBQEHBQGBZ?= =?us-ascii?q?YFbgQ9PMyeDeYEdgl6QIIINAooJh12HTg0jgVSCdQKEIRoHAQQ0EgEDAQECAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQETAQEJDQkIJyUMgjYkAYJhAQEBAQIBIx0BGxILAQMBCwYDAgsNDQkBARICA?= =?us-ascii?q?iIBEQEFARwGExmDCYFoAQMNCA+KYpAHPIlZEYEjgRIFAReCdwWBRUCCOQoZJw1?= =?us-ascii?q?agTcCBhKLd4FXP4ERgmQugxALAgEBgTdVGwIFgjWCVwKJT4ZBj3IHAoIcBIRch?= =?us-ascii?q?iAbg3gYgiaOYoJ4ikuKXg8hgRMpgXYzGiNQMYI7CYISgSIBAoJIgT6DVoVcJDC?= =?us-ascii?q?Kdg0VAoInAQE?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0B+BAABW/xbgCumVdFkHQEBBQEHBQGBZYFbgQ9PMyeDeYE?= =?us-ascii?q?dgl6QIIINAooJh12HTg0jgVSCdQKEIRoHAQQ0EgEDAQECAQEBAQETAQEJDQkIJ?= =?us-ascii?q?yUMgjYkAYJhAQEBAQIBIx0BGxILAQMBCwYDAgsNDQkBARICAiIBEQEFARwGExm?= =?us-ascii?q?DCYFoAQMNCA+KYpAHPIlZEYEjgRIFAReCdwWBRUCCOQoZJw1agTcCBhKLd4FXP?= =?us-ascii?q?4ERgmQugxALAgEBgTdVGwIFgjWCVwKJT4ZBj3IHAoIcBIRchiAbg3gYgiaOYoJ?= =?us-ascii?q?4ikuKXg8hgRMpgXYzGiNQMYI7CYISgSIBAoJIgT6DVoVcJDCKdg0VAoInAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,283,1539640800"; d="scan'208,217";a="286897252" Received: from mail-io1-f43.google.com ([209.85.166.43]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-GCM-SHA256; 26 Nov 2018 21:48:03 +0100 Received: by mail-io1-f43.google.com with SMTP id n9so15120254ioh.7 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:48:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yCGs7NV0QFtZcFvXnOsHMHff9dYNNwDqRekockczEz0=; b=fFde5Z8SodP14a95FfigEjplhu+48zVwzQBvGoKG/+XiqClHiCVELEXA863DeMg7NW 2acrbzVAnmOpdaXUpFKwk/mPGsPWItvb/fnoDy+QhPY6lMV8K1vjtO4hJPZnnWWDSWpE 250ODXqUKMWeWISxp3/5UEKhuW+AyoqVAuk68CRfPj15V60aj8+uknPdG+i3dJuS01nd 91EU+5xcDq6AqWLOGEkcsZMowW1XvlNHnUBiMrvhzZwja3rgFjJOD8vVf7G8Z8sO5GJg iZnikNHtHoRAcaiEi3lbW9+G1klBSL/JAEiPXH9FlAFBqzZ+3N1SBA4EX6oejE3pI33H 28eQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yCGs7NV0QFtZcFvXnOsHMHff9dYNNwDqRekockczEz0=; b=hO7h1etavyK2KE7M7dGFJqCzZnHBq1M74bp4YmQ+v67bgUmSbyNnMTTFD4rWCYdCGM XLG1Am+KFmeU3ktvWa1kYAv20V/7NDUkj/LI3GAzddkiJpPoAziZDdEPZAOZGuQPzSW6 VWkvl5YGNb0ohXTBlEPw3j7OdSZ/Kd+cv+BcMbzv2tz3niJRU9gr/q61MmoG9Wroh7c3 w+5CQC0XLSx58Xhc0BDM7N0yZyIny9Lr92QiMGoWAoYq+8hCnVxSWlAFD5N7EjpMz2JW T+xcbtdUGz8QBAX2jZ3YiQhqvKUQI0C9jq8s5ODZBrwXcV7ov/Op5nsYqUOb1B1BvnCS BjUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWa7hId8HxDzpKW0tHlQwpRYVUaU8hKm+ku5bHgJfn9uMDnlSVGV Nz6ooWDEqVThw4rRxZdXvWIA4mau45LTml6BdQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/V2rawZMwN4R7Tcqdp/2SvJw1+/oGicgEO1fB5Y9L/qmh6a68nZKYU8L/SqepsaNe6z21gdxNCP9W6C0QwqQZo= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:242:: with SMTP id 63mr22552019ioc.118.1543265281807; Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:48:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181126101448.3ee5jgz4c6ulsbbr@first.in-berlin.de> In-Reply-To: From: Yawar Amin Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:47:56 -0500 Message-ID: To: Julia Lawall Cc: oliver@first.in-berlin.de, Ocaml Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ea9b3d057b977262" Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh of them? Reply-To: Yawar Amin X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Sequence: 17148 Errors-to: caml-list-owner@inria.fr Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: caml-list-request@inria.fr X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000ea9b3d057b977262 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" But you still need an OCaml compiler, right? Are you not using opam to get it? If you are, you already have opam. If you're not ... you will have a tougher time than you need to :-) opam is the recommended installation method by the OCaml team: http://ocaml.org/docs/install.html Regards, Yawar On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 3:34 PM Julia Lawall wrote: > > > On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, Yawar Amin wrote: > > > Hi Julia, I agree that we need to simplify the life of the user. But > that's > > the developer's job, not the language toolchain. Users should not need to > > know or care about OCaml (ideally), they should download and run binary > > packages or install them through their operating system package manager. > > Since it's not possible for many projects to provide all possible system > > binaries to users, the fallback should be for the user to build the > package > > with clear instructions that they'll need to install opam and then > > `opam build` (e.g.). > > Like the original poster, I would very much prefer something based on > make. > > julia > > > > > Regards, > > > > Yawar > > > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:59 AM Julia Lawall > wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, Yawar Amin wrote: > > > > > If anyone would like to chime in and say that OCaml build and > > packaging > > > system is not that complicated, I would recommend first > > looking > > > at https://github.com/rizo/awesome-ocaml#package-management > > . IMHO we need > > > to seriously look at consolidating efforts around OPAM for > > package > > > management, packaging, building, testing and running. All the > > serious > > > language-specific package managers do it, it's a proven > > strategy and it > > > simplifies life for the developer. > > > > I find it odd that simplifying the life of the developer is the > > highest > > priority. Doesn't one want to simplify the life of the user? > > Ideally the > > user who has never touched OCaml before in his life? > > > > As a simple example, the web page for installing OCaml says that > > the > > recommended way to install ocaml is to install opam. There is a > > link to a > > page explaining how to install opam. How should anyone even > > have > > confidence that they will end up with OCaml after following > > those > > instructions? Even step 1 of the installation process leads the > > user to > > confusion. > > > > julia > > > > > > > > This could be a typical workflow: > > > > > > cd some-ocaml-proj > > > opam install # Switches compiler if necessary and installs and > > locally > > > caches package dependencies > > > opam build > > > opam run # Automatically builds if necessary > > > opam test # Ditto > > > opam package # Ditto; --upload option can immediately upload > > to opam > > > opam doc # Builds documentation with ocamldoc or whatever > > > opam login -u user -p password > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Yawar > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 5:15 AM Oliver Bandel > > > > > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > a while ago it looked like there were not enough build- > > and > > > installation-tools > > > for OCaml. I remember some discussions about that. > > > > > > Now it seems to me that there are a lot of them. > > > So, developers can pick the one they know about. > > > > > > For all these tools there might be good reasons to use > > them, and > > > those > > > developers who looked at these tools and choose them for > > their > > > projects, will > > > know them well enough. > > > > > > The situation differs, if one wants to package the > > written > > > software, > > > and one needs to know many of those tools, just to > > compile the > > > stuff. > > > So, when one just wants to compile and install some > > software, > > > just for that, it would take much effort to learn the > > different > > > build-tools. > > > > > > So, packaging has become more complicated, even though > > for the > > > developers > > > these tools may save time. > > > > > > It would be nice if people who used one of the many new > > building > > > tools > > > could provide a Makefile that allows just to type > > > "make" and "make install", instead of expecting everyone > > who > > > wants to compile > > > the software to first learn just-another-build-tool. > > > > > > Also it would be good, to mention early, which > > installation > > > tools (make-dependencies) > > > are in use, and too mention needed packages (opam or > > others) to > > > just build the stuff. > > > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > Oliver Bandel > > > > > > -- > > > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and > > archives: > > > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > > > https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list > > > Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/ > > > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > > https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list > > Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/ > > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs > > > > > > > > -- > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list > Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/ > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs -- Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/ Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs --000000000000ea9b3d057b977262 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
But you still need an OCaml compiler, rig= ht? Are you not using opam to get it? If you are, you already have opam. If= you're not ... you will have a tougher time than you need to :-) opam= =C2=A0is the recommended installation method by the OCaml team:=C2=A0http://ocaml.org/docs/install.html=

Regards,

Yawar

On Mon, N= ov 26, 2018 at 3:34 PM Julia Lawall <julia.lawall@lip6.fr> wrote:


On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, Yawar Amin wrote:

> Hi Julia, I agree that we need to simplify the life of the user. But t= hat's
> the developer's job, not the language toolchain. Users should not = need to
> know or care about OCaml (ideally), they should download and run binar= y
> packages or install them through their operating system package manage= r.
> Since it's not possible for many projects to provide all possible = system
> binaries to users, the fallback should be for the user to build the pa= ckage
> with clear instructions that they'll need to install opam and then=
> `opam=C2=A0build` (e.g.).

Like the original poster, I would very much prefer something based on
make.

julia

>
> Regards,
>
> Yawar
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:59 AM Julia Lawall <julia.lawall@lip6.fr> wrote: >
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, Yawar Amin wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> If anyone would like to chime in and sa= y that OCaml build and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packaging
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> system is not that complicated, I would= recommend first
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0looking
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> at=C2=A0= https://github.com/rizo/awesome-ocaml#package-management
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.=C2=A0IMHO we need
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> to seriously look at consolidating effo= rts around OPAM for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0package
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> management, packaging, building, testin= g and running. All the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0serious
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> language-specific package managers do i= t, it's a proven
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0strategy and it
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> simplifies life for the developer.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I find it odd that simplifying the life of t= he developer is the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0highest
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0priority.=C2=A0 Doesn't one want to simp= lify the life of the user?=C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ideally the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0user who has never touched OCaml before in h= is life?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As a simple example, the web page for instal= ling OCaml says that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0recommended way to install ocaml is to insta= ll opam.=C2=A0 There is a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0link to a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0page explaining how to install opam.=C2=A0 H= ow should anyone even
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0confidence that they will end up with OCaml = after following
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0those
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0instructions?=C2=A0 Even step 1 of the insta= llation process leads the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0user to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0confusion.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0julia
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> This could be a typical workflow:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> cd some-ocaml-proj
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> opam=C2=A0install # Switches compiler i= f necessary and installs and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0locally
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> caches package dependencies
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> opam=C2=A0build
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> opam=C2=A0run # Automatically builds if= necessary
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> opam=C2=A0test # Ditto
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> opam=C2=A0package # Ditto; --upload opt= ion can immediately upload
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to opam
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> opam=C2=A0doc # Builds documentation wi= th ocamldoc=C2=A0or whatever
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> opam=C2=A0login -u user -p password
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Regards,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Yawar
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 5:15 AM Oliver = Bandel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<oliver@first.in-berlin.de>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hello,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a while ago i= t looked like there were not enough build-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0installation-= tools
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for OCaml. I = remember some discussions about that.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Now it seems = to me that there are a lot of them.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0So, developer= s can pick the one they know about.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0For all these= tools there might be good reasons to use
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0them, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0those
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0developers wh= o looked at these tools and choose them for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0their
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0projects, wil= l
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0know them wel= l enough.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The situation= differs, if one wants to package the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0written
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0software,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and one needs= to know many of those tools, just to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0compile the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0stuff.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0So, when one = just wants to compile and install some
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0software,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0just for that= , it would take much effort to learn the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0different
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0build-tools.<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0So, packaging= has become more complicated, even though
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0developers
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0these tools m= ay save time.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It would be n= ice if people who used one of the many new
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0building
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tools
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0could provide= a Makefile that allows just to type
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"make&qu= ot; and "make install", instead of expecting everyone
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0who
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wants to comp= ile
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the software = to first learn just-another-build-tool.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Also it would= be good, to mention early, which
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0installation
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tools (make-d= ependencies)
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0are in use, a= nd too mention needed packages (opam or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0others) to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0just build th= e stuff.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks and re= gards,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Oliver= Bandel
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Caml-list mai= ling list.=C2=A0 Subscription management and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0archives:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https= ://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Forum: https= ://discuss.ocaml.org/
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bug reports: = http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
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>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Caml-list mailing list.=C2=A0 Subscription m= anagement and archives:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://sympa.inria.fr/symp= a/arc/caml-list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/b= in/caml-bugs
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