From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 556857FACD for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:15:46 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: None (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of yotambarnoy@gmail.com) identity=pra; client-ip=209.85.217.178; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="yotambarnoy@gmail.com"; x-sender="yotambarnoy@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: domain of yotambarnoy@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.178 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.217.178; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="yotambarnoy@gmail.com"; x-sender="yotambarnoy@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@mail-lb0-f178.google.com) identity=helo; client-ip=209.85.217.178; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="yotambarnoy@gmail.com"; x-sender="postmaster@mail-lb0-f178.google.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvwBAOZKG1TRVdmylGdsb2JhbABgg2BXBIJ8tQuPVYFrh00BgQMIFgERAQEBAQcLCwkSLIQEAQEDARIRHQEbEgwDAQsGBQsaHQICIgERAQUBChIGExICDogHAQMJCA2fbGuLMIFygxCJNgoZJwMKZoZGAREBBQ6PZQuCeIFTBYRbMgWQc4Q2glGBYJF2GCmFKyEvgkoBAQE X-IPAS-Result: AvwBAOZKG1TRVdmylGdsb2JhbABgg2BXBIJ8tQuPVYFrh00BgQMIFgERAQEBAQcLCwkSLIQEAQEDARIRHQEbEgwDAQsGBQsaHQICIgERAQUBChIGExICDogHAQMJCA2fbGuLMIFygxCJNgoZJwMKZoZGAREBBQ6PZQuCeIFTBYRbMgWQc4Q2glGBYJF2GCmFKyEvgkoBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,549,1406584800"; d="scan'208";a="96506844" Received: from mail-lb0-f178.google.com ([209.85.217.178]) by mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 18 Sep 2014 23:15:45 +0200 Received: by mail-lb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id c11so1986566lbj.37 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=Awr0ndNtaEBfGDxg4xwh8dq2xpcKshNBL0PYnYn12Kc=; b=wodcF/Kfca4CpJ9FKo1qKJ4M5OsvoTDvAeJjxlDeKXRaAvNiJ4TREgMX3k3KF7GENC k4XW45WvG3zMZhzjRyaNDZDT+EqCdR96aQTz4p5BYGrZI1Ty4GIBjJICIwziz6xeKUeZ bNcIwFR+lBjXQwop0ie7Ei2JTd28rx5OI7leUTsbASDOo7gQcjg27PboT2XBm51823s3 fQubVs+AA4ifyRf4aUsYbNl1zifENgzsfD9tk0soMSa7bDlSaDgTk49uhZ2vLIHAwaWe vcCV5tpWlIgrZPB/3EEsdaqTJjo3lulVKdc65TtCHdW6SMBNuA06eI35bd83+0NuJBW7 54Gg== X-Received: by 10.152.37.72 with SMTP id w8mr2439333laj.48.1411074944815; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.20.71 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:15:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5416EAF8.9050800@glondu.net> References: <5410522E.3050207@inria.fr> <1410359012.3003.34.camel@thinkpad> <54106B6D.4040607@gmail.com> <5416EAF8.9050800@glondu.net> From: Yotam Barnoy Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:15:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: Ocaml Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160c156d6568405035d7c55 Subject: Re: [Caml-list] One build system to rule them all? --089e0160c156d6568405035d7c55 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While there was no 'conclusion' to this thread, if I had to come up with one, it would be that we have a bunch of build tools which are all not amazing at this point in time. We have some DSL-based build tools and some ocaml-based build tools, and all of them need a lot of love to get to a good state. My personal view is that we (as a community) should work at getting at least one DSL tool to be really great. I'm sure Jenga (an ocaml-based tool which seems more like a build-tool engine) will continue to be developed by Jane Street no matter what, so is there a DSL-based build system that we can converge on to use and improve? The contenders for this slot appear to be omake, obuild, and ocp-build. I'm more than willing to switch to one of these if I know that other people will as well, and that it will be actively developed (preferably on github). More users =3D more invested parties =3D more development potential. Conversely, continuing to spread the community's attention between these tools (as well as ocamlbuild, which seems destined to stagnate) before any one of them is top notch seems to me to be detrimental to ocaml's health as an ecosystem. BTW Anil: is assemblage supposed to be an entire build toolchain, or is it only supposed to write makefiles (as the description in the readme states)? -Yotam On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:34 AM, St=C3=A9phane Glondu wr= ote: > Le 10/09/2014 20:59, Yotam Barnoy a =C3=A9crit : > > So here are some requirements I can think of (using some of the > > suggestions that have been brought up): > > - Easy to use, especially for small projects (large projects can afford > > to put more time into their build systems) > > - Abstract away platform considerations as much as possible. No > > dependence on specific shells and POSIX utilities. > > - Allows compilation of C files, which is quite common in ocaml package= s. > > - Scalable to many directories and files > > - Uses ocamlfind to locate packages > > - Handles camlp4 and ppx > > - Parallel & incremental compilation > > - Support of platforms without ocamlopt. Many build systems assume that > ocamlopt is available and have to be called specially (or even patched) > when it is missing, which complicates packaging on these platforms. > > -- > St=C3=A9phane > > -- > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs > --089e0160c156d6568405035d7c55 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
While there was no 'conclusion' to this thread, if= I had to come up with one, it would be that we have a bunch of build tools= which are all not amazing at this point in time. We have some DSL-based bu= ild tools and some ocaml-based build tools, and all of them need a lot of l= ove to get to a good state.

My personal view is that we = (as a community) should work at getting at least one DSL tool to be really = great. I'm sure Jenga (an ocaml-based tool which seems more like a buil= d-tool engine) will continue to be developed by Jane Street no matter what,= so is there a DSL-based build system that we can converge on to use and im= prove? The contenders for this slot appear to be omake, obuild, and ocp-bui= ld. I'm more than willing to switch to one of these if I know that othe= r people will as well, and that it will be actively developed (preferably o= n github). More users =3D more invested parties =3D more development potent= ial. Conversely, continuing to spread the community's attention between= these tools (as well as ocamlbuild, which seems destined to stagnate) befo= re any one of them is top notch seems to me to be detrimental to ocaml'= s health as an ecosystem.

BTW Anil: is assemblage = supposed to be an entire build toolchain, or is it only supposed to write m= akefiles (as the description in the readme states)?

-Yotam

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:34 AM, St=C3=A9phane Glondu = <steph@glondu.net<= /a>> wrote:
Le 10/09/2014 20:59= , Yotam Barnoy a =C3=A9crit :
> So here are some requirements I can think of (using s= ome of the
> suggestions that have been brought up):
> - Easy to use, especially for small projects (large projects can affor= d
> to put more time into their build systems)
> - Abstract away platform considerations as much as possible. No
> dependence on specific shells and POSIX utilities.
> - Allows compilation of C files, which is quite common in ocaml packag= es.
> - Scalable to many directories and files
> - Uses ocamlfind to locate packages
> - Handles camlp4 and ppx
> - Parallel & incremental compilation

=C2=A0- Support of platforms without ocamlopt. Many build systems as= sume that
ocamlopt is available and have to be called specially (or even patched)
when it is missing, which complicates packaging on these platforms.

--
St=C3=A9phane

--
Caml-list mailing list.=C2=A0 Subscription management and archives:
ht= tps://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

--089e0160c156d6568405035d7c55--