From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDFBA81799 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 21:00:55 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of gildor478@gmail.com) identity=pra; client-ip=209.85.214.180; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="gildor478@gmail.com"; x-sender="gildor478@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of gildor478@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.214.180; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="gildor478@gmail.com"; x-sender="gildor478@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@mail-ob0-f180.google.com) identity=helo; client-ip=209.85.214.180; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="gildor478@gmail.com"; x-sender="postmaster@mail-ob0-f180.google.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlwCAMp08VHRVda0jWdsb2JhbABbgztQvnAIFg4BAQEBBwsLCRIGJIIkAQEDAkABOAEDDAEFBQsNLiISAQUBHAYTFAYBh2MDDwycO49OhGgnDYhYAQUMk3gDl1+PaBYpgV2CXzo X-IPAS-Result: AlwCAMp08VHRVda0jWdsb2JhbABbgztQvnAIFg4BAQEBBwsLCRIGJIIkAQEDAkABOAEDDAEFBQsNLiISAQUBHAYTFAYBh2MDDwycO49OhGgnDYhYAQUMk3gDl1+PaBYpgV2CXzo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,744,1367964000"; d="scan'208";a="22277436" Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com ([209.85.214.180]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 25 Jul 2013 21:00:54 +0200 Received: by mail-ob0-f180.google.com with SMTP id eh20so2300963obb.25 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:00:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Mog8eFWi/KhiwEfBP/bOk4ZRIMaM6TAg+YXhlkGfdPM=; b=tkJtuSmKeBnerlo9F3Qsz51oT5PZWsBs8O+Etca3NV/GJXcjxeWcBa9V1SmhOgd1Ru 8IoEH37JuC11EB2cKwJFAtNpSjzI11PApONiB9znOF5y0MWjKoMRRc5q1WYtbo50Ciy1 kSrybfMwxDlBV5V7IW2mMWyFcKv5upDUdYy7qGY10zX3U4GgPZa1vUQ+51SJ9ZrUqw1I NURbf3eZ+HCarUUZgkXZVntNSPQbt2KwBkGEIEC9SbXUPlC5J+nRdr0GgO4VCQN1zCXU exESUFXY71FV3Y8R0CQqMhfRkzDJ512KA+4Q4Ndj4K7wyJOTULuu4q0qmMNEod+Xw3Cb XCgA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.50.244 with SMTP id f20mr493989igo.21.1374778853547; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Sender: gildor478@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.65.105 with HTTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:00:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1e141e2803d9dec6a8231dd4f16dd173.squirrel@gps.dynxs.de> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 21:00:53 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: DvisMXY2FjedNzW2pJMBKjS4CP0 Message-ID: From: Sylvain Le Gall To: Fabrice Le Fessant Cc: Ocaml Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Re: GODI is shutting down Hi, 2013/7/25 Fabrice Le Fessant : > Hi Sylvain, > > I am sorry you feel that way. > > For me, it's actually the opposite: OCamlPro tries to improve the whole > OCaml development infrastructure, adding features and optimizations to the > compiler, writing new generic libraries and development tools, and taking > the burden of maintaining them on the long term, so that all of us, OCaml > developers and companies, can focus on hacking our favorite application in > OCaml, without having first to rewrite all the tools you usually find with > other languages. > > Also, as a service-provider, we mostly only work on tools and libraries that > are funded by our customers, because they think that these tools are > important to their business. Our current workforce on this topic is not so > big, we could do much more to improve the environment, but for that, we need > to find more customers (hint :-) ) so that we can design the best solutions > tailored to their needs. > Don't miss my point. I think OCamlPro is achieving a technical challenge (although I wish OCamlPro will improve parallelism in OCaml rather than something else). I just wish you make it with a good leadership: making people talk together and collaborating. It will probably just cost you a few emails to do it and it is not like you are not aware of other people existing in the OCaml community. Dev. behind closed door is a way to manage a company, but when it came to OSS community it quickly makes member of the community feel weird. OCamlPro should just improve its leadership and I'll be fine. Regards Sylvain > --Fabrice > Scientific advisor for OCamlPro > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Sylvain Le Gall > wrote: >> >> This whole discussion has drifted into various technical topics but I >> would like to give my POV on the general topic of OCamlPro vs some >> members of the community. >> >> >> I think OPAM is a great piece of work and I wished we can have two >> package manager, including GODI for which I have contributed a little. >> >> OCamlPro has the worforce to do things that most of the individuals >> cannot do: have a team of engineers working on an OCaml topic. That's >> great expect that when you know your software is on the list of topics. >> When you are a team of 1 and OCamlPro has decided to work on something >> close to what you are doing, you know that you should stop working on it >> because you cannot compete (lack of time, lack of workforce). >> >> This kind of feeling makes me extremly uncomfortable about the future of >> all the libraries I maintain. This kind of FUD is extremly >> counter-productive for any OCaml dev. >> >> To give you a quick taste of that, you can read: >> http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/66/59/62/PDF/paper_10.pdf (fr) >> >> where you can see that ocp-build is supposed to replace OASIS >> (explanation about why OASIS doesn't fit, p2 at the beginning) and that >> it should replace findlib's META file (p12, Conclusion). >> >> Some people will see a good news in this document and some people will >> feel uncomfortable (like me). >> >> >> I don't think making some people feel uncomfortable is great. >> >> Given OCamlPro position, I would love to see them achieve great things >> and solve long standing issue like: >> https://github.com/lucasaiu/ocaml (a reentrant runtime which should be >> the stepping stone for parallelism in OCaml) >> >> I think it would be a lot more productive than to replace every OCaml >> tools by something starting with ocp-... >> >> My 0.02 cents >> Sylvain > >