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d="scan'208,217";a="359261999" Received: from mail-qk1-f195.google.com ([209.85.222.195]) by mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-GCM-SHA256; 07 Dec 2018 11:15:27 +0100 Received: by mail-qk1-f195.google.com with SMTP id d19so2101841qkg.5 for ; Fri, 07 Dec 2018 02:15:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=rzQCBvQU3laeLYqG6dwiGLyS5SYSOvgeFRyiB1HqTVY=; b=t9ZcYFqnWFErdVF3W1bUWbAFDEjuRhGXTeRTMm7sRXJnh7026UBEYs1ihcTlegNGtw MdL6NJgBfx69OS1NgHBOQYlypC+cZoRxT/nrNxTixCBuDgP4SNEmHvAClWSJv9X3l4Yh 4MCtsVC55QZHot+g/C0P+F8ghoAPvnY9ScMhqIwke30Tyu7l4mysqak7wtERSp9btB1V K0kiRXv8wfwlNlJcVkpt3TABcQO9kiHCAZlZPLivrLLOiDsJTMSi8V92VjZ2z3GV7WKy t9CakeXa8LeW+8cv4lGrL5P5nGVdZUyYuAmcCnY1i2wAPIaKYVoiVUTUh+dFUMUeZN7+ 30cw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=rzQCBvQU3laeLYqG6dwiGLyS5SYSOvgeFRyiB1HqTVY=; b=gerdAwm7tjZlzNVYeXCO4yE5S+AkV9v1y/+yTM/+VB6sFk03DkbSuZr/ZhcVioMwju gnaTTVqVyr58FQjul3qm2qwDT6yfO0Q9E7Hs9KV8uWc9L8W2B91Xy8iP9SC77CFiT5Ml zopV/1UgWBPT2lIcZfHAdag4/s2NK2Vo8we7hUHM8jnx1V//PK6sr7vJJLDM8jWoZHuO z3XDV7Abw2AoXLs6NP4jJehJUM0PHhRhkCmz32ruvvrTrplo6HCm0bs1LQ4Df1wNti0D X/cYggl8qnyfVRMYECjsFqYYVysMzdn3g0L73iD/zkOyIc8EZ3zAZfIRF4fg5sg3eJ0/ TefQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYkxbOWclUlLxoiQFOQgZ0Doycr7aqvGnSvVW2f564khGMyqeej iMIlIwNFbVINhjhQTR1fvG0r6dRSyuDiZdy1WC2HLBDs X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WiXvs4JE09kDG5NoVY4jI4s+1tTisarZTOyYhBV2+PDmrMj0lBJx7UcKXbqVzW2t7c5ehpXn4JZYxTD7wIvWQ= X-Received: by 2002:a37:2b5b:: with SMTP id r88mr1288610qkh.336.1544177726460; Fri, 07 Dec 2018 02:15:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <966B3CBE-29BB-4336-BDBF-0012723E7099@math.nagoya-u.ac.jp> <87va45odpo.fsf@x80.org> In-Reply-To: <87va45odpo.fsf@x80.org> From: Gabriel Scherer Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 11:25:12 +0100 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Emilio_Jes=C3=BAs_Gallego_Arias?= , Jacques Garrigue , caml users Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000db18a8057c6be470" Subject: Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk3 beta1 Reply-To: Gabriel Scherer X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Sequence: 17227 Errors-to: caml-list-owner@inria.fr Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: caml-list-request@inria.fr X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000db18a8057c6be470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I am not sure I see the advantages of the *-conf solution vs a more > granular approach [...] where each package has a > fixed set of system dependencies. If several OCaml package have system dependencies in common, (of several versions of the same OCaml package), indicating depexts per-package duplicate the information. This is what we were doing before and in practice most package depexts were perpetually out-of-date. Some information in the conf-package is rather canonical from system to system (such as: the pkg-config name, even though there is still variation unfortunately), some is highly system-dependent (the package name in the package manager); I think it's reasonable to also have the "canonical" information in the build system. Also, conf-* packages are very early in the dependency tree, so a pragmatic advantage is that they will fail early in the build, typically before you have installed all the OCaml dependencies and you start building the package itself. (Also, depending on the configure/build system, you may geta nice error if a dependency is missing, or a crappy compilation failure that can be hard for users to interpret). > they don't have the *-conf pitfall of having to recompile a lot of > dependencies when a *-conf package is installed If you edit a package to update system dependencies, you have the same recompilation issues. If you have to recompile *more* in the case of a conf-* package, it is because it introduced dependency sharing, which is a good thing -- making the repository more maintainable. > I find more natural to do `opam install lablgtk2-sourceview2` than > `opam install conf-gtksourceview lablgtk2` I don't understand, the point is for lablgtk2-sourceview2 to depend on conf-gtksourceview2, so you should just use the first command and the conf-* package(s) will get installed as well. On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Emilio Jes=C3=BAs Gallego Arias wrote: > Jacques Garrigue writes: > > > There is no opam package yet, because I=E2=80=99m not sure how to do th= at: > > I seem to need to add a new conf-gtksourceview3 package too, and I=E2= =80=99m not > > sure how to proceed. Help accepted. > > > > Note that this is not the originally planned introspection based port, > but > > a manual port of lablgtk2, dropping widgets that are no longer > > available. It is of course possible to add new widgets if people > > are willing to contribute. > > > > The main goal is to allow application using lablgtksourceview, > > such as CoqIDE, to compile on top of Gtk-3. Since Gtk-2 itself > > stays available, lablgtk2 will continue to be supported for other > > applications. > > I am not sure I see the advantages of the *-conf solution vs a more > granular approach as done here > https://github.com/garrigue/lablgtk/pull/14, where each package has a > fixed set of system dependencies. > > AFAICT `depext` fields can be added to the custom packages just fine, > and they don't have the *-conf pitfall of having to recompile a lot of > dependencies when a *-conf package is installed. > > I find more natural to do `opam install lablgtk2-sourceview2` than > `opam install conf-gtksourceview lablgtk2` > > E. > > -- > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list > Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/ > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs --=20 Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/ Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs= --000000000000db18a8057c6be470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> I am not sure I see the advantages of the *-conf solu= tion vs a more
> granular approach [...] where each package has a
> fixed se= t of system dependencies.

If several OCaml package= have system dependencies in common,
(of several versions of the = same OCaml package),
indicating depexts per-package duplicate= the information. This is what we
were doing before and in practi= ce most package depexts were perpetually
out-of-date.
Some information in the conf-package is rather canonical from system to = system
(such as: the pkg-config name, even though there is still = variation unfortunately),
some is highly system-dependent (the pa= ckage name in the package manager);
I think it's reasonable t= o also have the "canonical" information in the build system.

Also, conf-* packages are very early in the dependency= tree, so a pragmatic advantage
is that they will fail early in t= he build, typically before you have installed all the OCaml dependencies
and you start building the package itself.
(Also, dependi= ng on the configure/build system, you may geta nice error if a dependency i= s missing,
or a crappy compilation failure that can be hard for u= sers to interpret).

> they don't have the *= -conf pitfall of having to recompile a lot of
> dependencies when a *= -conf package is installed

If you edit a package t= o update system dependencies, you have the same recompilation issues.
=
If you have to recompile *more* in the case of a conf-* package, it is= because it introduced dependency
sharing, which is a good thing = -- making the repository more maintainable.


> I find more natural to do `opam install lablgtk2-sourceview2` than
=
> `opam install conf-gtksourceview lablgtk2`

I = don't understand, the point is for lablgtk2-sourceview2 to depend
=
on conf-gtksourceview2, so you should just use the first command
=
and the conf-* package(s) will get installed as well.

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM= Emilio Jes=C3=BAs Gallego Arias <e@x80.org= > wrote:
= Jacques Garrigue <garrigue@math.nagoya-u.ac.jp> writes:

> There is no opam package yet, because I=E2=80=99m not sure how to do t= hat:
> I seem to need to add a new conf-gtksourceview3 package too, and I=E2= =80=99m not
> sure how to proceed. Help accepted.
>
> Note that this is not the originally planned introspection based port,= but
> a manual port of lablgtk2, dropping widgets that are no longer
> available. It is of course possible to add new widgets if people
> are willing to contribute.
>
> The main goal is to allow application using lablgtksourceview,
> such as CoqIDE, to compile on top of Gtk-3. Since Gtk-2 itself
> stays available, lablgtk2 will continue to be supported for other
> applications.

I am not sure I see the advantages of the *-conf solution vs a more
granular approach as done here
https://github.com/garrigue/lablgtk/pull/14, where ea= ch package has a
fixed set of system dependencies.

AFAICT `depext` fields can be added to the custom packages just fine,
and they don't have the *-conf pitfall of having to recompile a lot of<= br> dependencies when a *-conf package is installed.

I find more natural to do `opam install lablgtk2-sourceview2` than
`opam install conf-gtksourceview lablgtk2`

E.

--
Caml-list mailing list.=C2=A0 Subscription management and archives:
https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list htt= ps://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list
Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/
Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
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