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bh=cVv2eZx8rS8uKLE1OJgKIc5Xw0bAj2wlcigBFAaBE7I=; b=nKvLX6/HUqpeNM2IUuElHiPBJRkRYZjE/wAZe5Qr0HGwSmvDssRqIn5htchiUTxiTX AQh1qJlQ2/mRGKweXys2D3Gg/D5XWze5QANxklhslgW0/CKUv9ftHzabYnvgoONHfzR+ XpWMrmQqzZA0QijVzH+uibdA3H63fLgn9BKlzdvbS4Va1kKS5HCAcXbdhROxLvXRHWeJ hUGxIVljI1ZPujbrkWo2MEPXIvLSqbmOvSvSEQyvVqW7ACBVMNDS50dmWWh19o5D5Hx+ jjGpM20q1/9CHoE8OBCGvDGNjYW4FkiiSNEP3hezFtb9a9yVGxPvEDaRZwYuXRCXQm2u 6o2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tLSsAVbpAVrlK+JIoJ5QLlkcaLyNI+B6eSC1UmbIgLD0Q/bLlp7h031HxB4ifYa9iGl2sviqlCymPFHpg== X-Received: by 10.36.64.8 with SMTP id n8mr15291205ita.21.1467301971003; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 08:52:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.68.130 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 08:52:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20160630110806.GB16808@frosties> References: <5E818FB5-6908-4E29-838E-C6A2836F60CE@inria.fr> <20160627090929.GB24144@frosties> <1467026350.6080.9.camel@e130.lan.sumadev.de> <20160630110806.GB16808@frosties> From: Gabriel Scherer Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:52:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: Goswin von Brederlow Cc: caml users Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1143dd0ac2904e053680dc02 Subject: Re: [Caml-list] About contributions to the Standard Library --001a1143dd0ac2904e053680dc02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 7:08 AM, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > But then you should ask for more workers, not for more work. > Very true, and we do! We've always repeatedly claimed that reviewing proposed patches/changes would be a big help. Some external contributors frequently do it and it is very useful. (It is particularly useful when they're ready to go to the level of a code review, but feedback on the design is already useful.) For a concrete example, the email I sent to announce that we would accept pull-requests on Github, in addition to patches on Mantis ( https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list/2014-01/msg00254.html ), starts as follows: I think we need more people ready to review patches proposed for > inclusion in the OCaml compiler/distribution; lack of reviews is > currently one of the bottleneck in the development process -- among > others, such as the sheer difficulty to reach consensus on any change > to the language itself. Doing patch reviews is helpful, extremely > interesting, and an excellent way to get to know more about small > parts of the compiler. > To repeat again: any help reviewing proposed patches, on *both* Mantis and Github, is warmly welcome. It's an excellent way to get to know diverse parts of the compiler distribution codebase, it's informative, low-risk, interesting, very helpful. Do it! That should, of course, not prevent us from un-blocking a situation with the compiler stdlib, where people interested in also improving its state (such as you) were prevented from contributing by lack of clear upstream guidance on the range of accepted changes and the decision process. We want more reviews *and* more good stuff, and we should have both. On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 7:08 AM, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 09:21:11AM -0400, Gabriel Scherer wrote: > > Well there are more tickets on the bugtracker (and github PRs) than human > > time to review and make decisions on all of them. I'm very sorry if some > > contributions are left to bitrot. Anyone can help by reviewing and giving > > informed opinions on suggestions, and it's most helpful if contributors > are > > ready to ping from time to time to ask for an opinion on their > contribution. > > > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 7:19 AM, Gerd Stolpmann > > wrote: > > > > > Am Montag, den 27.06.2016, 11:09 +0200 schrieb Goswin von Brederlow: > > > > Why should we contribute when contibutions are just left to bitrot? > > > > > > > > Like: http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/view.php?id=4909 which has had a > > > > patch for 6 1/2 year that's just left rotting. > > > > > > I guess you hit one of the pain points of the current library design, > > > namely the various integer types (and the issue of combinatorial > > > increase of possible variants). In my most recent code (a data science > > > lib) I solved that radically - no support for 32 bit architectures > > > anymore. The truth is that with current OCaml you cannot support both > 32 > > > bit and 64 bit equally well. Either you get a performance loss from > > > boxed ints, or you get macros in central places of your code. > > > > > > Of course, that's no excuse for not responding at all. > > > > > > Gerd > > But then you should ask for more workers, not for more work. > > If you already can't keep up with the existing rate of contributions > then more contributions will only mean more are left to bitrot. Worse, > it means less contribution do get added because you spend more time > just checking new contributions and deciding to not handle them right > now. > > But anyway, consider this a ping for my patch. Hopefully it will be > looked at again now. > > MfG > Goswin > > -- > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs > --001a1143dd0ac2904e053680dc02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 7:08 AM, Goswin von Brederlow <go= swin-v-b@web.de> wrote:
But then= you should ask for more workers, not for more work.
<= br>
Very true, and we do!

We've always repe= atedly claimed that reviewing proposed patches/changes would be a big help.= Some external contributors frequently do it and it is very useful. (It is = particularly useful when they're ready to go to the level of a code rev= iew, but feedback on the design is already useful.)

For a= concrete example, the email I sent to announce that we would accept pull-r= equests on Github, in addition to patches on Mantis ( https://sympa.inria= .fr/sympa/arc/caml-list/2014-01/msg00254.html ), starts as follows:
=
I think we need more people ready to review patches proposed for
inclusion in the OCaml compiler/distribution; lack of reviews is
currently one of the bottleneck in the development process -- among
others, such as the sheer difficulty to reach consensus on any change
to the language itself. Doing patch reviews is helpful, extremely
interesting, and an excellent way to get to know more about small
parts of the compiler.

To repeat again: any help reviewing proposed patches, on *both* Mant= is and Github, is warmly welcome. It's an excellent way to get to know = diverse parts of the compiler distribution codebase, it's informative, = low-risk, interesting, very helpful. Do it!

That should, of course, not prevent us from un-blocking a situatio= n with the compiler stdlib, where people interested in also improving its s= tate (such as you) were prevented from contributing by lack of clear upstre= am guidance on the range of accepted changes and the decision process. We w= ant more reviews *and* more good stuff, and we should have both.
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 7:08 AM, Goswin von Bred= erlow <goswin-v-b@web.de> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 09:21:11= AM -0400, Gabriel Scherer wrote:
> Well there are more tickets on the bugtracker (and github PRs) than hu= man
> time to review and make decisions on all of them. I'm very sorry i= f some
> contributions are left to bitrot. Anyone can help by reviewing and giv= ing
> informed opinions on suggestions, and it's most helpful if contrib= utors are
> ready to ping from time to time to ask for an opinion on their contrib= ution.
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 7:19 AM, Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Am Montag, den 27.06.2016, 11:09 +0200 schrieb Goswin von Brederl= ow:
> > > Why should we contribute when contibutions are just left to = bitrot?
> > >
> > > Like: http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/view.= php?id=3D4909 which has had a
> > > patch for 6 1/2 year that's just left rotting.
> >
> > I guess you hit one of the pain points of the current library des= ign,
> > namely the various integer types (and the issue of combinatorial<= br> > > increase of possible variants). In my most recent code (a data sc= ience
> > lib) I solved that radically - no support for 32 bit architecture= s
> > anymore. The truth is that with current OCaml you cannot support = both 32
> > bit and 64 bit equally well. Either you get a performance loss fr= om
> > boxed ints, or you get macros in central places of your code.
> >
> > Of course, that's no excuse for not responding at all.
> >
> > Gerd

But then you should ask for more workers, not for more work.

If you already can't keep up with the existing rate of contributions
then more contributions will only mean more are left to bitrot. Worse,
it means less contribution do get added because you spend more time
just checking new contributions and deciding to not handle them right
now.

But anyway, consider this a ping for my patch. Hopefully it will be
looked at again now.

MfG
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Goswin

--
Caml-list mailing list.=C2=A0 Subscription management and archives:
https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocam= l_beginners
Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

--001a1143dd0ac2904e053680dc02--