From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@sympa.inria.fr Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68BD37FE44 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 03:37:22 +0200 (CEST) IronPort-PHdr: 9a23:EvYcxxzYmo8GLlbXCy+O+j09IxM/srCxBDY+r6Qd0e0QIJqq85mqBkHD//Il1AaPBtSDrakewLaL+4nbGkU4qa6bt34DdJEeHzQksu4x2zIaPcieFEfgJ+TrZSFpVO5LVVti4m3peRMNQJW2WVTerzWI4CIIHV2nbEwud7yzQdSZ05n//tvx0qWbWx9Piju5bOE6BzSNhiKViPMrh5B/IL060BrDrygAUe1XwWR1OQDbxE6ktY+YtaRu+CVIuv8n69UIEeCjJ/x5HvRkC2EJPno5rPb3sh3bSAKJ4DNIU2MYlTJHDhLJqQrmWZPptyL8sKxx1X/JE9fxSOURUC6h8rwjbRj0lCNPYzsw6mLKkYp1i75HpDquohV+x8jfZ4TDZ6k2Rb/UYd5PHTkJZc1WTSEUR9rkN4Y= Authentication-Results: mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; spf=None smtp.pra=markus.mottl@gmail.com; spf=Pass smtp.mailfrom=markus.mottl@gmail.com; spf=None smtp.helo=postmaster@mail-io0-f176.google.com Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of markus.mottl@gmail.com) identity=pra; client-ip=209.85.223.176; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="markus.mottl@gmail.com"; x-sender="markus.mottl@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of markus.mottl@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.176 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.223.176; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="markus.mottl@gmail.com"; x-sender="markus.mottl@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@mail-io0-f176.google.com) identity=helo; client-ip=209.85.223.176; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="markus.mottl@gmail.com"; x-sender="postmaster@mail-io0-f176.google.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BIAAAjVIBXhrDfVdFchBR8BqYNkwSBeiSFKkoCgSIHOBQBAQEBAQEBAREBAQEICwsJIS+CMoIbAQMCDgQRHQEUBwkUAQMMBgULAwoCAiYCAiEBAREBBQEcBhMih3MBAxcOoSWBMT4xizuBaoJaBYVXChknDVKDSQEBAQEGAQEBAQEaAgYQcYUmhBwxgkOBWoMlgloFmGA0gVqEMoYvA4IRjyyEOoNghjUSHoEPHoJQgXMgMgGHbYFEAQEB X-IPAS-Result: A0BIAAAjVIBXhrDfVdFchBR8BqYNkwSBeiSFKkoCgSIHOBQBAQEBAQEBAREBAQEICwsJIS+CMoIbAQMCDgQRHQEUBwkUAQMMBgULAwoCAiYCAiEBAREBBQEcBhMih3MBAxcOoSWBMT4xizuBaoJaBYVXChknDVKDSQEBAQEGAQEBAQEaAgYQcYUmhBwxgkOBWoMlgloFmGA0gVqEMoYvA4IRjyyEOoNghjUSHoEPHoJQgXMgMgGHbYFEAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.28,333,1464645600"; d="scan'208";a="184335080" Received: from mail-io0-f176.google.com ([209.85.223.176]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-GCM-SHA256; 09 Jul 2016 03:37:21 +0200 Received: by mail-io0-f176.google.com with SMTP id f30so58041336ioj.2 for ; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:37:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=pC7Twydl2bTAhGR/uF2RQxDtiX5oCDao3bs/DR008M0=; b=q9y5IGKtqegs9QjQN5BgayO5m7/ceOfBsPfPuYI0cF9My7YBjh5b9wz9BhhQo936yX H6edBNb/7S48VwumJOBvejXeZvPLLQJIfzpvAa/YV5qzbXVO3OEcy+gKGW43/fYKu6PU 2U4wM8Tg5whxybvuVidcxNeNSfIzyTqHI7UBqmT8U7oVhJ8NBfOthPfDw5kA4t6JVb2A HPWWMFN9SNYurvHYkB9gF4ym+gn4QRQqrf5vH6d5izT0YJ/HXOW01z0OexKL5hj4XFqd 49RQIOU4Zg1MVf9cP6vHpPWGjvFDDLcdnagkYCZRA3ODdCvevPQcF6I8JA8WoVTFrHVq QnlQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pC7Twydl2bTAhGR/uF2RQxDtiX5oCDao3bs/DR008M0=; b=IJIvYeYX+HfPP/ovz/ULohosQ12dRlWkqciwyf1teOwq2RLvgu5Nn7CUZz9WFHF6L0 19eBt89fP+LjlZwoXC2t4GSbFPZKTmo35ceLo1ViNAtNzQ0YjivghnaPJ1LoSpCtRNLS dRU3pg2XP4jXUOOC2JEg1iE4RxOywh9lAcUz+lM+6j6fDdHp7ZuH4F6/Gstf+8ekOfHQ En1BD9gtIFYngig3QEAd2FhCkU4rSN+A1g5pC9QS8r4buwIIMs33v/f1fI4i4a4tXjmH ezK2iS/0QE8yZqPC9S/1y36uiuEecenlbh9ReDMXGvYden9iIONoKioVRxCJN4O2BV8M mNPw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tL2Xk/H8y0+WjU2jUJ8kCT8+9iQQrZm9kqpEoDfTE21JOJ1dqsbljEIS1lGjSpvuB6ogYrqgahReZxPAg== X-Received: by 10.107.50.65 with SMTP id y62mr10923822ioy.46.1468028239448; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:37:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.9.103 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 18:37:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1468019499.25014.24.camel@e130.lan.sumadev.de> References: <20160704144512.GB2458@Razor> <20160708214604.GB1723@tiger> <1468019499.25014.24.camel@e130.lan.sumadev.de> From: Markus Mottl Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 21:37:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: Gerd Stolpmann Cc: Robert Muller , SP , Gabriel Scherer , Dean Thompson , "caml-list@inria.fr" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [Caml-list] how to encourage adoption of OCaml? On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 7:11 PM, Gerd Stolpmann wrote: > That OCaml is not resume-friendly is a myth that still spreads in the > academic world. Actually, it is hard for companies to find OCaml > engineers (it is currently one of our search criteria), and I don't know > anyone who was unemployed for a longer time. I'd guess that the demand > for engineers is bigger than the supply. Of course, this might depend on > where you live, and for what kind of job you go, and getting the first > position in a certain field is never easy. I agree that having OCaml experience on one's resume is not a bad thing, but that's because it signals general programming competence. There are plenty of shops that ask for FP experience, but on closer examination just do that to filter out weaker candidates. The vast majority would still rather have you write C++ and Python. It's always hard to find good employees, just less so if you are an actual FP shop. A fairly obvious measure for the balance between supply and demand is price. E.g. the UK salary ranges in the following guide are probably not too unrealistic: http://uk.hudson.com/Portals/UK/documents/SalarySurveys/SalaryTables_2016_UK_IT.pdf As can be seen, functional programmers pay a heavy price for their preferences (if they actually want to use an FPL) and that's not just limited to monetary compensation. If the above guide is of any indication, they rank near the bottom (below even VBA and HTML5 developers). It's a realistic assumption that money and status are significant motivators for most students. Having the choice between OCa-what? and Python, they will quite rationally choose the latter, because it promises an easier path to attaining their goals. The more interesting question actually is why the supply side is so weak. Regards, Markus -- Markus Mottl http://www.ocaml.info markus.mottl@gmail.com