From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id VAA29764; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:00:38 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA29551 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:00:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (outbound28-2.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.160]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i59J0ZSH015497 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:00:36 +0200 Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (smtp03.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.123]) by smtpout05.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABANQZT6AES8SV2 for (sender ); Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 17115 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2004 18:59:13 -0000 Received: from 66-52-239-100.sttl.dial.netzero.com (HELO vangogh) (66.52.239.100) by smtp03.lax.untd.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2004 18:59:13 -0000 From: "Brandon J. Van Every" To: "caml" Subject: RE: [Caml-list] popular for being popular Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:08:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-ContentStamp: 15:7:408247498 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: CI84cOLHFqh7Zd2QWkwvEFvwyO3T/pIsPQZphDk9MRgGrOLESBhlwl3QZDC/PYu+ X-Miltered: at concorde with ID 40C75E53.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Spam: no; 0.02; brandon:99 caml-list:01 $31:99 floats:01 api:01 ocamlopt:01 work-:99 excuses:99 brandon:99 seattle:99 2004:99 compiler:01 -bit:01 ocaml:01 writting:01 Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk Brian Hurt wrote: > > So while the games industry may be all over > single-precision, other users of 3D rendering aren't. Your analysis is correct. However, games were a $31 billion industry last I looked a couple of years ago, so to pooh pooh its industrial concerns is silly. Actually, what really puzzles me the most is why Microsoft hasn't added 64-bit floats to the DirectX API. It's all they'd need to chase the high end markets and put OpenGL to bed. Maybe it's XBox politics... they don't want DirectX on the PC to get too far ahead of DirectX on the XBox. > > Academics *don't* do real work. They do research problems, and real > > (i.e. boring) work is regarded as uninteresting. (And rightly so.) > > > > There's the impulse to do research, and then there's the impulse to > > achieve widespread industrial relevance. They are not the > > same impulse. > > Obviously my dripping saracasm wasn't dripping enough. Frankly, I > consider writting a multi-platform optimizing compiler (like, say, > ocamlopt) and maintaining it for a decade or more to be more > "real" work > than writting some game that'll have a six month shelf life > (if you're lucky). Newsflash: a six month shelflife is more industrial relevance than OCaml has achieved. I wouldn't suggest to industrial game programmers that they're not doing 'real' work. They're usually pretty stressed out after their 10..14 hour days and wouldn't take it too well. A lot of people out there are obeying the dictates of the product cycle. Cutting code, shipping product is what most of the real world of boring gruntwork amounts to. If you had made your comparison in terms of 'sustained work' or 'high quality work', I'd have a basis for agreeing with you. The game industry is definitely throwaway and dysfunctional, which is why I'm not part of it. > And this is *exactly* the attitude I was talking about. > "Academics can't > do real work- if they could, they'd be doing real work and > not research!" It's calling a spade a spade. Industrialists aren't operating on assumptive theory like you suggest. They're looking at what academics have actually gotten done, and seeing that their products are wanting in key respects. An industrialist wants to know, "Does it work? Does it solve my problem?" If your answer is 'no', don't make excuses about it. Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA "The pioneer is the one with the arrows in his back." - anonymous entrepreneur --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.693 / Virus Database: 454 - Release Date: 5/31/2004 ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners