From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id WAA12759; Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:39:26 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA13715 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:39:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (outbound28-2.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.160]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i7CKdNmL019213 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:39:24 +0200 Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (smtp03.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.123]) by smtpout03.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABATZXLUA6XENQA for (sender ); Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 9651 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2004 20:37:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vangogh) (66.52.236.34) by smtp03.lax.untd.com with SMTP; 12 Aug 2004 20:37:57 -0000 From: "Brandon J. Van Every" To: "caml" Subject: RE: [Caml-list] OCaml growing pains Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:48:38 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20040812141309.GA19858@quick.recoil.org> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-ContentStamp: 12:6:1670273763 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: CI84cOLHFqh7Zd2QWkwvEFvwyO3T/pIsFsCrOjjLH87sqhR0bZf2Dr6G2qdMJ439 X-Miltered: at nez-perce with ID 411BD57B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Spam: no; 0.00; brandon:99 caml-list:01 python:01 incorrectly:01 baroque:01 flaws:01 posts:01 tolerable:01 bayesian:01 whining:01 caml-list:01 bayesian:01 crap:01 crap:01 unboxed:01 Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk Anil Madhavapeddy wrote: > > You are possibly the worst evangelist I have ever seen. The good > evangelists actually know quite a lot about the stuff they pontificate > about. Living a stone's throw from Microsoft as I do, and often wishing for a stone, I am ROTFLMAO at what you say. The book of Microsoft states that knowing everything about a technology is clearly not necessary to market it. When OCaml has the popularity of C# or Windows, we'll talk about what evangelist qualities led to that. Meanwhile, you should realize that the people who are best at excruciating technical detail are the worst evangelists, because they aren't interested in being accessible to anyone who doesn't meet their high standards of technical content. Thus it is necessary to have more than 1 type of person to promote a language, and more than 1 culture. (The Python Software Foundation still doesn't understand this, unfortunately). I'm doing just fine promoting OCaml to game developers right now, no matter how much Xavier might shake his head. That's because I understand game industry culture far better than he does. I know what their issues are and what I have to say to address them. I answer honestly about where OCaml is really at, as best I can. Even if someone thinks I answer incorrectly, the more important truth is game developers go through the exact same futz / misconception learning curve that I do. Some things are not misconceptions. OCaml does have baroque syntax, a long learning curve for imperative programmers, technical flaws, a relative but not absolute lack of libraries, a futzy toolchain on Windows, only fledgling community organization, and no marketing materials that would convince a suit to give it a whirl. > Your posts about user groups would be tolerable if they were limited > to one every few weeks, and not also followed up with reams of > whines and moans about Bayesian filters conspiring against you. Which is what actually happens. You aren't getting ML S*attle announces *and* whining, there'd be no reason for it if the announces actually went through. I tried again last night and still haven't managed it. Maybe a very large code snippet would do the trick. Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com Brand*n Van Every S*attle, WA Praise Be to the caml-list Bayesian filter! It blesseth my postings, it is evil crap! evil crap! Bigarray! Unboxed overhead group! Wondering! chant chant chant... // return an array of 100 packed tuples temps int $[tvar0][2*100]; // what the c function needs value $[tvar1]; // one int value $[tvar2]; // one tuple int $[tvar3] // loop control var oncePre eachPre $[cvar0]=&($[tvar0][0]); eachPost $[lvar0] = alloc(2*100, 0 /*NB: zero-tagged block*/ ); for(int $[tvar3]=0;$[tvar3]<100;$[tvar3]++) { $[tvar2] = alloc_tuple(2); $[tvar1] = Val_int($[cvar0][0+2*$[tvar3]]); Store_field($[tvar2],0,$[tvar1]); $[tvar1] = Val_int($[cvar0][1]); Store_field($[tvar2],1,$[tvar1+2*$[tvar3]]); Array_store($[lvar0],$[tvar3],$[tvar0]); } oncePost ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners