From: Brian Rogoff <bpr@best.com>
To: David Gurr <gurr@mrs.med.ge.com>
Cc: skaller@ozemail.com.au, caml-list@inria.fr, leary@nwlink.com
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] ocaml complexity
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:19:34 -0700 (PDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0106131550550.25213-100000@shell5.ba.best.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200106132104.OAA08015@mrs.mrs.med.ge.com>
On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, David Gurr wrote:
> > From owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Wed Jun 13 13:36:15 2001
> > From: leary@nwlink.com
> > To: Brian Rogoff <bpr@best.com>, caml <caml-list@inria.fr>
> > On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 08:21:27AM -0700, Brian Rogoff wrote:
> > > Perhaps we users should start writing
> > > tutorials, rather than asking INRIAns, as I'd rather that they work on
> > > growing the language.
> >
> > Aye. Would Michel Mauny be agreeable to having his "Functional
> > Programming Using Caml Light" be the starting point for a "Learning OCaml"
> > project, say on sourceforge? Are there any better tutorials on ML
It depends on the group that you're targeting for the tutorial, of course.
I think writing from scratch is a fine idea. I think a tutorial should be
aimed at getting (C++/Java/Perl) programmers up to speed quickly so it
would probably be a bit boring for the type theory heavy crowd.
> I assume you mean Caml rather than SML
Borrow from good SML tutorials like Robert Harper's too I say.
> > that
> > might be borrowed from with permission?
> >
> >
> The intro in the HOL-Light manual is quite good. Also quite good is:
>
> http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/isia/
This is in French, which would be a problem for a lot of programmers that
I know. Interestingly, I seem to have picked up enough written French from
reading this list (with a dictionary and some phrasebooks of course) that
I could read almost all of this. If Didier would like to make the TeX
available, I could take a stab at translating this. He has also written
http://cristal.inria.fr/~remy/cours/appsem/
which I think is just wonderful, but I don't think its for the beginning
OCaml'er. It's for a more sophisticated programmer, and delves into type
theory issues.
John Max Skaller <skaller@ozemail.com.au> then writes
> Brian Rogoff wrote:
> > When OCaml becomes so popular that it one of these standards
> > organizations is involved, there will be significantly less ability to
> > make incompatible changes.
>
> I like your positive approach
>
> "When Ocaml becomes so popular .." :-)
I believe with perfect faith in the coming of OCaml.
> > Anyways, more growth is good. If OCaml reaches Python's popularity,
> > that would be great.
> But Python too is severely constrained by backwards
> compatibility requirements. It is the main reason I gave up on it
> as a serious language: it is beyond fixing.
That's true, but there were certainly some pretty major cleanups in
Python with respect to its scoping that I think make it a much better
language. Of course, it's not OCaml, but it's clearly popular enough that
lots of people want it on their resumes. OCaml is not there yet.
> OTOH, Ocaml doesn't really _need_ fixing :-)
There are a few places where I think improvements can be made. From what
I've read, INRIA is working on all of them.
> > Perhaps we users should start writing
> > tutorials, rather than asking INRIAns, as I'd rather that they work on
> > growing the language.
>
> I'd love to, but the language isn't popular enough for me
> to make enough money selling books on it: I'd make a respectable income
> from C++ books, but I have lost enthusiasm for promoting it.
I was thinking more of writing free, web available tutorials to increase
the user base. That needs to happen to bring more people on board. Only
then will there be a big market for OCaml books in Anglophone nations.
In other words,
Ask not what the OCaml community can do for you, ask what you
can do for the OCaml community.
> I blame Ocaml for that. Catch-22.
I feel your pain. It's tough to go back to C++ or Java, isn't it?
-- Brian
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2001-06-13 23:19 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 56+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2001-06-13 21:04 David Gurr
2001-06-13 23:13 ` leary
2001-06-13 23:19 ` Brian Rogoff [this message]
2001-06-15 13:28 ` Tore Lund
2001-06-15 14:03 ` Nils Goesche
2001-06-15 14:54 ` Xavier Leroy
2001-06-15 15:14 ` Jonathan Coupe
2001-06-15 15:23 ` Nils Goesche
2001-06-15 17:38 ` Sven LUTHER
2001-06-15 20:36 ` Remi VANICAT
2001-06-15 14:16 ` Doug Bagley
2001-06-28 12:54 ` Didier Remy
2001-06-28 18:31 ` Brian Rogoff
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-06-14 16:04 John R Harrison
2001-06-11 20:33 Arturo Borquez
2001-06-11 21:17 ` Miles Egan
2001-06-12 7:19 ` wester
2001-06-07 8:58 leary
2001-06-07 18:29 ` Jonathan Coupe
2001-06-08 9:41 ` leary
2001-06-08 12:27 ` Jonathan Coupe
2001-06-08 20:22 ` Chris Hecker
2001-06-08 20:31 ` Miles Egan
2001-06-08 22:17 ` Jonathan Coupe
2001-06-08 22:18 ` Miles Egan
2001-06-11 14:05 ` Pierre Weis
2001-06-09 19:41 ` John Max Skaller
2001-06-08 22:59 ` David Fox
2001-06-09 0:43 ` leary
2001-06-09 1:09 ` Mark Wotton
2001-06-09 8:36 ` Markus Mottl
2001-06-09 20:58 ` John Max Skaller
2001-06-08 22:46 ` leary
2001-06-09 1:18 ` David Fox
2001-06-12 14:17 ` John Max Skaller
2001-06-13 15:21 ` Brian Rogoff
2001-06-13 20:32 ` leary
2001-06-13 22:58 ` Johann Höchtl
2001-06-13 21:18 ` John Max Skaller
2001-06-09 22:32 ` Jonathan Coupe
2001-06-11 0:20 ` leary
2001-06-06 16:50 Miles Egan
2001-06-06 17:30 ` Chris Hecker
2001-06-06 18:25 ` Charles Martin
2001-06-06 19:27 ` Michael Hicks
2001-06-06 21:15 ` David Fox
2001-06-07 12:25 ` FabienFleutot
2001-06-08 0:27 ` Miles Egan
2001-06-06 19:36 ` William Chesters
2001-06-06 19:55 ` John Max Skaller
2001-06-06 20:06 ` William Chesters
2001-06-07 16:30 ` John Max Skaller
2001-06-08 0:32 ` Miles Egan
2001-06-08 0:56 ` David Fox
2001-06-07 7:35 ` wester
2001-06-07 17:27 ` John Max Skaller
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