From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id RAA06198; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:38:51 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA06132 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:38:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from herd.plethora.net (herd.plethora.net [205.166.146.1]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3PFcmjq030449 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:38:48 +0200 Received: from bhurt.plethora.net (bhurt.plethora.net [205.166.146.49]) by herd.plethora.net (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id i3PFchR16040; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:38:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:43:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian Hurt X-X-Sender: bhurt@localhost.localdomain To: Kenneth Knowles cc: John Goerzen , Ocaml Mailing List Subject: Re: [Caml-list] [ANN] The Missing Library In-Reply-To: <20040423205451.GA27396@tallman.kefka.frap.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Miltered: at nez-perce by Joe's j-chkmail ("http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr")! X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Spam: no; 0.00; caml-list:01 knowles:99 2004:99 demonstrate:01 extlib:01 comming:01 hashtable:01 pervasives:01 gui:01 monolithic:01 cpan-like:01 hashtbl:01 kicked:99 compiler:01 ocaml:01 Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Kenneth Knowles wrote: > On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 03:23:42PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: > > But the fact that these libraries exist is, at its heart, a symptom of > > the problems with the OCaml standard library. > > I'm just encouraging the dissenters to cooperate to more thoroughly demonstrate > their case, and get a well-design library. A large part of the problem is one of mindshare. The fact that extlib is out there isn't immediately obvious to someone just comming into Ocaml. In fact, it's rather hard to find. So, someone new comes in, discovers that such-and-such a function or functionality is missing from the standard library, doesn't see a standard way to get said added to the standard library, and decides to help out the community by starting a parallel standard library with looser submission rules. Lather, rinse, repeat. > I do suggest splitting domain-independent stuff like extended list and > hashtable functions from specialized stuff like IMAP and config file > parsers. Personally, I see three levels of library functionality: 1) Core libraries, those libraries which are so core, so important that it's hard to impossible to write programs without them. Examples would be Pervasives (duh), List, Array, etc. This list may be expanded to include those libraries needed to compile/run the compiler. This level would be maintained by the INRIA folks. 2) Standard Environment Libraries. These would be the libraries a program could count on to be installed in normal environments. Examples would include GUI libraries, various network protocols, an XML parser, etc. This would be a single, monolithic, project under a single license, but one maintained by the community as a whole. 3) A CPAN-like tool. This is for libraries that are not commonly used enough for inclusion into the standard environment (ex. PSQueue), or libraries with licensing issues. Most programs shouldn't need any OPAN libraries, and no project should depend upon more than 1-2 of them. The key here is a simple, common, install procedure for libraries. Note that particular features/functionality can migrate between the levels. The INRIA folks could decide that, for example, Hashtbl should get kicked out and moved down to the standard environment. Or they could decide to move XML parsing into the core libraries. The standard environment could decide to start including encryption libraries from OPAN, or they could kick PSQueue out into OPAN because not enough people are using it. -- "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." - Gene Spafford Brian ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners