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From: Thomas Fischbacher <Thomas.Fischbacher@Physik.Uni-Muenchen.DE>
To: Brian Hurt <bhurt@spnz.org>
Cc: Michael Walter <michael.walter@gmail.com>,
	skaller <skaller@users.sourceforge.net>, Jon <jdh30@cam.ac.uk>,
	caml-list@yquem.inria.fr
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] The boon of static type checking
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:58:36 +0100 (CET)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0502122211110.22145@eiger.cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0502121233300.5563-100000@localhost.localdomain>


On Sat, 12 Feb 2005, Brian Hurt wrote:

> Note that with N=1.5, a 100,000 program takes 1,000 man-days, or 50 
> man-months (4 man-years), and a 1,000,000 line program takes man 
> centuries.
> 
> The important point is the scaling is exponential, not linear.

Sorry, that's power-law scaling.

Exponential would mean that it's of the form a*exp(x/b), with some 
dimensionful constant a.

power-law scaling is the only behaviour that can be expected from 
scale-invariant systems. That is, take some complex system which may well 
be determined by staggeringly complicated short-distance effects (say, 
intra-orbital quantum interaction between magnetic atoms - can it get 
any worse than that?).

Then, look at this system at larger and larger scales. Try to find a way 
to describe it which allows you to perform a scale transformation, that 
is, look at interactions/interrelations between clusters, in such a way 
that the scale-transformed system can be described in a formally 
equivalent way to the original system, only with other interaction 
parameters.

Then, study the flow of your system parameters under many many 
re-scalings. There are different types of behaviour, the most simple cases
one can expect are:

(i) Some parameters blow up.

(ii) Some parameters vanish.

(iii) Some parameters reach non-trivial fixed points.

If you have (i), this means - more or less - your system doesn't scale. We 
will not consider this any further.

(ii) means that at very large scales, a lot of the special characteristics 
drop out, only those that can exhibit proper scaling behaviour survive. 
Namely those of (iii). Interestingly, one finds that frequently, one can 
easily enumerate and fully classify those few effects that survive 
scaling. This leads to the interesting observation that quite many systems 
that may be determined by wildly different micro-effects show precisely 
the same macroscopic behaviour.

All in all, power-law behaviour is what should be normally expected for 
questions that do not have an obvious characteristic scale. What's the 
typical size of a software project? Here, I'd expect power-law behaviour, 
as there is no natural answer.

Indeed:

grep Installed-Size /var/lib/dpkg/available|perl -pe 'm/: (\d+)/;$h[$1/100]++}{$n=0;$_=join "\n",map{$n++." ".(0+$_)}@h[1..100]'>/tmp/a;echo -e 'set logscale x\nset logscale y\nplot "/tmp/a" with impulses, 2600*x**-1.25,1000*exp(-x/20)\npause 20'|gnuplot /proc/self/fd/0

See what I mean? Exponential behaviour *does* have a characteristic scale: 
the size increase over which the number of projects is reduced by 1/2.

-- 
regards,               tf@cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de              (o_
 Thomas Fischbacher -  http://www.cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~tf  //\
(lambda (n) ((lambda (p q r) (p p q r)) (lambda (g x y)           V_/_
(if (= x 0) y (g g (- x 1) (* x y)))) n 1))                  (Debian GNU)


  reply	other threads:[~2005-02-12 21:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 169+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-02-02 21:31 Estimating the size of the ocaml community Yaron Minsky
2005-02-02 21:36 ` [Caml-list] " Christopher A. Watford
2005-02-02 21:54   ` Frédéric Gava
2005-02-03  3:58     ` skaller
2005-02-03  6:35       ` Erik de Castro Lopo
2005-02-03 16:29         ` Olivier Pérès
2005-02-03 18:06         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-03 18:34           ` Frédéric Gava
2005-02-03 21:16             ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-03 21:58               ` Paul Snively
2005-02-03 22:42                 ` Bardur Arantsson
2005-02-03 23:29                   ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-03 22:33               ` josh
2005-02-03 23:22                 ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-03 23:39                   ` Richard Jones
2005-02-04  9:04                     ` Frédéric Gava
2005-02-04  9:37                       ` Richard Jones
2005-02-04 10:11                       ` Olivier Andrieu
2005-02-04 11:14                         ` Frédéric Gava
2005-02-04 12:15                           ` Richard Jones
2005-02-04 12:46                             ` Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk
2005-02-04 12:51                             ` Gerd Stolpmann
2005-02-04 13:43                               ` Richard W. M. Jones
2005-02-04 16:01                                 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2005-02-04 16:52                                 ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 17:21                                   ` Frédéric Gava
2005-02-04 17:55                                     ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 16:48                               ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 12:15                           ` Olivier Andrieu
2005-02-04 16:42                         ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 10:58                     ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 17:27                       ` Damien Doligez
2005-02-04 17:59                         ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04  1:17                   ` Michael Walter
2005-02-04 10:53                   ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 22:01                     ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-05 12:27                       ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-06  0:08                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-03 23:29               ` Richard Jones
2005-02-04  2:33               ` Jon Harrop
     [not found]                 ` <877e9a170502031856175260c8@mail.gmail.com>
2005-02-04  2:56                   ` Michael Walter
2005-02-04 10:26                     ` [Caml-list] The boon of static type checking Jon Harrop
2005-02-04 17:02                       ` Damien Doligez
2005-02-04 18:00                         ` Jon Harrop
2005-02-04 20:38                           ` Christophe TROESTLER
2005-02-04 21:42                             ` Jon Harrop
2005-02-04 22:11                               ` Christophe TROESTLER
2005-02-05  0:58                                 ` Jon Harrop
2005-02-05  1:52                                   ` Shivkumar Chandrasekaran
2005-02-07 18:47                                   ` Damien Doligez
2005-02-05  5:24                         ` Jacques Garrigue
2005-02-04 21:52                       ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04 22:27                         ` Christophe TROESTLER
2005-02-05 10:00                           ` Remi Vanicat
2005-02-06 11:18                             ` Christophe TROESTLER
2005-02-04 22:55                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-06  0:02                           ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-06  0:56                             ` Erik de Castro Lopo
2005-02-06 10:03                               ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-06  1:34                             ` Richard Jones
2005-02-06  2:30                               ` Erik de Castro Lopo
2005-02-06  9:54                               ` Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk
2005-02-06 10:05                               ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-05 21:48                       ` Michael Walter
2005-02-06 10:22                       ` Radu Grigore
2005-02-06 12:16                         ` Gerd Stolpmann
2005-02-06 14:59                           ` skaller
2005-02-06 22:30                             ` Radu Grigore
2005-02-07  3:15                               ` Erik de Castro Lopo
2005-02-06 17:28                         ` Jon
2005-02-06 22:26                           ` Radu Grigore
2005-02-07  2:51                             ` skaller
2005-02-07  1:54                           ` skaller
2005-02-07  5:34                             ` Brian Hurt
2005-02-07  6:16                               ` Michael Walter
2005-02-07 14:58                                 ` Igor Pechtchanski
2005-02-12 15:22                                 ` Brian Hurt
2005-02-12 16:11                                   ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-12 18:47                                     ` Brian Hurt
2005-02-12 21:58                                       ` Thomas Fischbacher [this message]
2005-02-12 17:06                                   ` skaller
2005-02-12 22:57                                   ` Michael Walter
2005-02-13  1:12                                     ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-13  1:51                                       ` Tony Edgin
2005-02-13  2:12                                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-13 10:26                                           ` Daniel Heck
2005-02-13 18:28                                             ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-13 20:52                                               ` Michael Walter
2005-02-13 21:42                                                 ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-13 22:51                                                   ` Michael Walter
2005-02-13 23:59                                                     ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  0:11                                                       ` Michael Walter
2005-02-14  0:42                                                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  1:11                                                           ` Michael Walter
2005-02-14  1:46                                                             ` Michael Vanier
2005-02-14  1:57                                                               ` Michael Walter
2005-02-14 14:19                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2005-02-14 14:36                                                                 ` [Caml-list] " Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  1:19                                                           ` [Caml-list] " Michael Walter
2005-02-14 17:29                                                           ` Martin Berger
2005-02-14 18:44                                                             ` skaller
2005-02-14 19:17                                                             ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  2:22                                                       ` skaller
2005-02-14  8:04                                                         ` Paul Snively
2005-02-14  9:33                                                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  9:39                                                         ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-14  2:10                                                   ` skaller
2005-02-13  2:27                                     ` Brian Hurt
2005-02-13  2:34                                       ` Michael Walter
2005-02-07 10:57                               ` Ville-Pertti Keinonen
2005-02-07 16:58                                 ` skaller
2005-02-07 17:24                                   ` Ville-Pertti Keinonen
2005-02-07 17:56                                   ` Paul Snively
2005-02-07 17:59                                   ` skaller
2005-02-07 17:30                                 ` skaller
2005-02-07 13:07                               ` Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk
2005-02-12 15:42                                 ` Brian Hurt
2005-02-07 17:42                               ` Ken Rose
2005-02-07  2:23                           ` skaller
2005-02-04  9:29                 ` [Caml-list] Estimating the size of the ocaml community Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04 10:26                   ` Andreas Rossberg
2005-02-04 17:54                     ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04 15:43                   ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 19:54                   ` Christophe TROESTLER
2005-02-04 20:20                     ` Karl Zilles
2005-02-04 22:07                     ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04  9:41                 ` Richard Jones
2005-02-04 10:03                   ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04 16:00                   ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 17:32                     ` sejourne_kevin
2005-02-04 18:46                       ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-05  1:49                     ` skaller
2005-02-04  8:55               ` Ville-Pertti Keinonen
2005-02-04  9:36                 ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-04 10:30               ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-04 22:02                 ` Thomas Fischbacher
2005-02-05 13:14                   ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-05 16:37                     ` Why can't types and exceptions be nested (was: Re: [Caml-list] Estimating the size of the ocaml community) Richard Jones
2005-02-05 17:04                       ` Basile STARYNKEVITCH
2005-02-05 19:26                       ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-06  2:56                       ` skaller
2005-02-04 21:55             ` [Caml-list] Estimating the size of the ocaml community Basile STARYNKEVITCH
2005-02-03 19:04           ` ronniec95
2005-02-03 20:06           ` skaller
2005-02-03 20:50             ` chris.danx
2005-02-03 21:14               ` Jon Harrop
2005-02-03 21:34                 ` chris.danx
2005-02-03 22:07                   ` Bardur Arantsson
2005-02-03 21:47                 ` Nicolas Cannasse
2005-02-04  3:52               ` skaller
2005-02-04 16:12             ` Oliver Bandel
2005-02-05  2:04               ` skaller
2005-02-03 20:35           ` chris.danx
2005-02-03  8:36     ` sejourne_kevin
2005-02-03  8:39       ` Matthieu Brucher
2005-02-03 16:23       ` Olivier Pérès
2005-02-03 10:10     ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2005-02-03 16:44       ` Vincenzo Ciancia
2005-02-02 22:10 ` [Caml-list] " Kenneth Knowles
2005-02-02 22:40 ` Michael Jeffrey Tucker
2005-02-02 22:52 ` Richard Jones
2005-02-02 23:42 ` Nicolas Cannasse
2005-02-03  6:53 ` Evan Martin
2005-02-03  6:57 ` Eric Stokes
2005-02-03 20:53 ` chris.danx
2005-02-03 23:29 ` Sylvain LE GALL
2005-02-03 23:38 ` sejourne_kevin
2005-02-07  8:49 ` Sven Luther
2005-02-07  9:23 ` Johann Spies

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