The F#.NET Journal

The F#.NET Journal

[Jon Harrop]

Flying Frog Consultancy just started the F#.NET Journal, an on-line 
publication composed of articles, example source code and tutorial videos 
aimed at beginner programmers learning the F# programming language from 
Microsoft Research:

  http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?ob

Given the current explosion in the adoption of functional programming 
languages, we're considering trying to mimic this success with an OCaml 
Journal. If you'd be interested in subscribing, please let us know.

-- 
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
The F#.NET Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?e

Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[Richard Jones]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:06:38PM +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
> 
> Flying Frog Consultancy just started the F#.NET Journal, an on-line 
> publication composed of articles, example source code and tutorial videos 
> aimed at beginner programmers learning the F# programming language from 
> Microsoft Research:
[...]

Does F# run on real operating systems?  Does it have a full open
source stack?

(Genuine questions - you seem to be saying a lot of good things about
F#).

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[Brian Hurt]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Richard Jones wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:06:38PM +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
>>
>> Flying Frog Consultancy just started the F#.NET Journal, an on-line
>> publication composed of articles, example source code and tutorial videos
>> aimed at beginner programmers learning the F# programming language from
>> Microsoft Research:
> [...]
>
> Does F# run on real operating systems?  Does it have a full open
> source stack?

Overall, I see F# as a good thing for Ocaml.  OK, it draws some of it's 
support from the Ocaml community (John Harrop here being an obvious 
example)- thus dilluting the pool of energy from Ocaml, at least in the 
short term.  But any F# programmer can pick up Ocaml in short order, and 
vice versa (not unlike the C#/Java communities).

But I think were F# will really draw it's people from is outside the 
community.  It'll draw from the vast horde of C#/VB/C++ Windows 
programmers.  Draw people from outside the community to inside the 
community.  And sooner or later many of them are going to start looking 
for an F# that runs on Linux/Unix.

Even if I'm wrong, even if F# is a net loss for Ocaml, I still can't help 
viewing F# as a good thing over all.  Anything which helps programmers 
write code that doesn't *SUCK* is an advantage to us all- and every 
programmer coding in F# is a programmer not coding in C#, VB, or, God help 
us, C++.  Making code proven free of large classes of bugs, and many other 
bugs rare indeed is a definate good.  And bluntly, most software- free 
software as well as proprietary, sucks large rocks through very small 
pipettes.

Just my two cents.

Brian

Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[skaller]

On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 18:57 -0400, Brian Hurt wrote:

> Overall, I see F# as a good thing for Ocaml.  OK, it draws some of it's 
> support from the Ocaml community (John Harrop here being an obvious 
> example)- thus dilluting the pool of energy from Ocaml, at least in the 
> short term. 

That's a product of INRIA's Cathedral. There's a door on the
Church where I can pin bug reports.

>  But any F# programmer can pick up Ocaml in short order, and 
> vice versa (not unlike the C#/Java communities).

>From a software engineering viewpoint all we have
is a superficial resemblance. 

-- 
John Skaller <skaller at users dot sf dot net>
Felix, successor to C++: http://felix.sf.net

Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[Gilles FALCON]

Hello,

F# comes with a nice IDE,  I think  another IDE (as eclipse for ie) 
could help people to come to ocaml.
Ocaml tools with Emacs are nice for strong programmer.

Just my two cents.

Gilles

Brian Hurt a écrit :
>
>
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Richard Jones wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:06:38PM +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
>>>
>>> Flying Frog Consultancy just started the F#.NET Journal, an on-line
>>> publication composed of articles, example source code and tutorial 
>>> videos
>>> aimed at beginner programmers learning the F# programming language from
>>> Microsoft Research:
>> [...]
>>
>> Does F# run on real operating systems?  Does it have a full open
>> source stack?
>
> Overall, I see F# as a good thing for Ocaml.  OK, it draws some of 
> it's support from the Ocaml community (John Harrop here being an 
> obvious example)- thus dilluting the pool of energy from Ocaml, at 
> least in the short term.  But any F# programmer can pick up Ocaml in 
> short order, and vice versa (not unlike the C#/Java communities).
>
> But I think were F# will really draw it's people from is outside the 
> community.  It'll draw from the vast horde of C#/VB/C++ Windows 
> programmers.  Draw people from outside the community to inside the 
> community.  And sooner or later many of them are going to start 
> looking for an F# that runs on Linux/Unix.
>
> Even if I'm wrong, even if F# is a net loss for Ocaml, I still can't 
> help viewing F# as a good thing over all.  Anything which helps 
> programmers write code that doesn't *SUCK* is an advantage to us all- 
> and every programmer coding in F# is a programmer not coding in C#, 
> VB, or, God help us, C++.  Making code proven free of large classes of 
> bugs, and many other bugs rare indeed is a definate good.  And 
> bluntly, most software- free software as well as proprietary, sucks 
> large rocks through very small pipettes.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>

Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[Robert Pickering]

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		Depends what one means by "real operating" systems. But yes it will run under linux using mono, I believe people have tried it on OS X too and it didn't work but this was due to a fault in Mono's implemenation of tail call. A bug report has been filed with the mono team so a fix should be forth coming.

The source of the implementation is available, but the license is not, for the moment, open source.

Cheers,
Rob

----------------------------------------

				From: Richard Jones <rich@annexia.org>
Sent: 18 April 2007 02:05
To: Jon Harrop <jon@ffconsultancy.com>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal 

On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:06:38PM +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
> 
> Flying Frog Consultancy just started the F#.NET Journal, an on-line 
> publication composed of articles, example source code and tutorial videos 
> aimed at beginner programmers learning the F# programming language from 
> Microsoft Research:
[...]

Does F# run on real operating systems? Does it have a full open
source stack?

(Genuine questions - you seem to be saying a lot of good things about
F#).

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

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Archives: http://caml.inria.fr
Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs



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Re: [Caml-list] The F#.NET Journal

[Jon Harrop]

On Wednesday 18 April 2007 10:32, Robert Pickering wrote:
> 		Depends what one means by "real operating" systems. But yes it will run
> under linux using mono,

From a recent benchmark I did, Mono is very, very slow. I've no idea what 
they're doing wrong but I was seeing 10-30x slower than .NET.

So if you're interested in performance, I recommend writing code in the 
intersection of OCaml and F#. That can be tricky though, because operator 
overloading is just so damn nice. ;-)

-- 
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
The F#.NET Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?e