From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18544BC46 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 01:05:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nproxy.gmail.com (nproxy.gmail.com [64.233.182.202]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j78N5RFV024459 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 01:05:27 +0200 Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x37so250481nfc for ; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 16:05:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=dBvC2rleoc0DT9ot/n+G13LhR+uRfvzuga+tupehR8RgkrfQxNwg1MpbTeZobKUdX2Ug/2tmY7BiyH5PLl2d3QYs72d1WMxIUBndfgG8YfTTz4AnPhKwHIekhirTZEs0Aw/TXfEipDxnaJmvXNhbSKl7U4y2iewxxksUQ/+Pdb4= Received: by 10.48.237.12 with SMTP id k12mr179248nfh; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 16:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.48.247.14 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 16:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 00:05:26 +0100 From: Chris Campbell To: Jon Harrop Subject: Re: [Caml-list] OCaml for Industry Cc: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr In-Reply-To: <200508081935.01424.jon@ffconsultancy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <200508011826.52882.jon@ffconsultancy.com> <200508081820.09595.jon@ffconsultancy.com> <1123523898.6848.107.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200508081935.01424.jon@ffconsultancy.com> X-Miltered: at nez-perce with ID 42F7E537.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Spam: no; 0.00; caml-list:01 ocaml:01 ocaml:01 ain't:98 mouth:98 wrote:01 wrote:01 imho:01 underlying:01 otoh:02 languages:03 languages:03 800:95 chris:05 written:06 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_BY_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 On 08/08/05, Jon Harrop wrote: > On Monday 08 August 2005 18:58, skaller wrote: > > > Rather than writing a whole report (seeing as there's no interest in = it), > > > > That is a silly conclusion IMHO. Did you really expect existing > > Ocaml experts to buy a report on use of Ocaml in industry targetted > > at MANAGERS?? >=20 > My theory was that programmers who appreciate better languages might want= some > evidence that they can present to their managers in order to help justify= the > use of non-mainstream languages. I was curious to see if anyone here was = in > such a position. No one is going to pay =A3800 to buy a report containing evidence Ocaml works in industry. You may make a damn good case, but it ain't gonna happen. If you don't have a few million to spend on advertising, some free t-shirts and big signs with words like "disruptive", "lower tco", and all that jazz you're coming through the back door with word of mouth.=20 That means you write applications in it, applications which are used! This is one thing people fail to understand. Ordinary users won't care if your software is written in OCaml, Brainf**k or Java. The application is primary to them. Developers otoh will care about the underlying language. To get their attention though you need to do more than write some code. You need to write code that gets used.=20 That's the hard bit though. What will people use? > I get the impression that most people here (like me) write OCaml code wit= hout > benefit of a manager. ;-) Yep. :)