LablGL on Ubuntu?

LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Chris Campbell]

Hi,

Is it safe to install LablGL on Breezy?  It wants to remove nvidia-glx
and libgl1-xorg.  I'm running breezy to test it and know the risks
about using an unstable distro (i ran sid for a year).  Don't want to
remove anything critical.

Will OCaml 3.08.4 feature in Breezy (thinking of the 64 bit fixes specifically)?


Cheers,
Chris

danx@arwen:~$ sudo apt-get install lablgl
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Note, selecting liblablgl-ocaml-dev instead of lablgl
The following extra packages will be installed:
  cpp-3.4 gcc-3.4 libc6-dev libgl1-mesa libgl1-mesa-dev
libglu1-mesa-dev libice-dev liblablgl-ocaml liblablgl-ocaml-dev
libncurses5-dev
  libsm-dev libx11-dev libxt-dev linux-kernel-headers ocaml ocaml-base
ocaml-base-nox ocaml-interp ocaml-nox tcl8.4-dev tk8.4-dev x-dev
  x11proto-core-dev x11proto-gl-dev x11proto-kb-dev
Suggested packages:
  gcc-3.4-doc libc6-dev-amd64 glibc-doc manpages-dev xlibs-dev
ocaml-doc libgdbm-dev tcl8.4-doc tk8.4-doc
Recommended packages:
  gcc c-compiler ledit
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libgl1-xorg nvidia-glx
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  cpp-3.4 gcc-3.4 libc6-dev libgl1-mesa libgl1-mesa-dev
libglu1-mesa-dev libice-dev liblablgl-ocaml liblablgl-ocaml-dev
libncurses5-dev
  libsm-dev libx11-dev libxt-dev linux-kernel-headers ocaml ocaml-base
ocaml-base-nox ocaml-interp ocaml-nox tcl8.4-dev tk8.4-dev x-dev
  x11proto-core-dev x11proto-gl-dev x11proto-kb-dev
0 upgraded, 25 newly installed, 2 to remove and 7 not upgraded.
Need to get 18.5MB/19.7MB of archives.
After unpacking 70.8MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? n
Abort.

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Sylvain LE GALL]

Hello,

On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 10:51:21PM +0100, Chris Campbell wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is it safe to install LablGL on Breezy?  It wants to remove nvidia-glx
> and libgl1-xorg.  I'm running breezy to test it and know the risks
> about using an unstable distro (i ran sid for a year).  Don't want to
> remove anything critical.
> 
> Will OCaml 3.08.4 feature in Breezy (thinking of the 64 bit fixes specifically)?
> 
> 

Please, read the bug report
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=319281 and

apt-get install libglu1-xorg-dev

should help you keep nvidia-glx and libglu1-xorg ( i don't have find
libgl1-xorg as you mention, so i guess it is libglu1-xorg).

Regard
Sylvain Le Gall

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[skaller]

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On Thu, 2005-08-25 at 22:51 +0100, Chris Campbell wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is it safe to install LablGL on Breezy?  It wants to remove nvidia-glx
> and libgl1-xorg.  I'm running breezy to test it and know the risks
> about using an unstable distro (i ran sid for a year).  Don't want to
> remove anything critical.
> 
> Will OCaml 3.08.4 feature in Breezy (thinking of the 64 bit fixes specifically)?

No, it is too late, Breezy is already frozen, unless
someone makes a special request (which might be warranted).

>   cpp-3.4 gcc-3.4 libc6-dev libgl1-mesa libgl1-mesa-dev

AFAIK Breezy uses g++-4.0, there are C++ ABI changes or
something .. anyhow I would not trust any code compiled
using anything less that gcc/g++ 4.0. [I'm using 4.0
under Hoary with CVS Ocaml on amd64 with no problems,
haven't tried 3.08.4 yet]

-- 
John Skaller <skaller at users dot sourceforge dot net>


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Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Chris Campbell]

On 26/08/05, skaller <skaller@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-08-25 at 22:51 +0100, Chris Campbell wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is it safe to install LablGL on Breezy?  It wants to remove nvidia-glx
> > and libgl1-xorg.  I'm running breezy to test it and know the risks
> > about using an unstable distro (i ran sid for a year).  Don't want to
> > remove anything critical.
> >
> > Will OCaml 3.08.4 feature in Breezy (thinking of the 64 bit fixes specifically)?
> 
> No, it is too late, Breezy is already frozen, unless
> someone makes a special request (which might be warranted).

I knew it was frozen but wondered if an exception was asked for.  e.g.
The Haskell maintainers are waiting for GHC 6.4.1 before they'll
compile the haskell apps (which includes Darcs :'( ).

Btw, how well does Hoary run on your AMD64 bit machine?  I was hanging
off installing the 64bit version because I heard it had problems.

> >   cpp-3.4 gcc-3.4 libc6-dev libgl1-mesa libgl1-mesa-dev
> 
> AFAIK Breezy uses g++-4.0, there are C++ ABI changes or
> something .. anyhow I would not trust any code compiled
> using anything less that gcc/g++ 4.0. [I'm using 4.0
> under Hoary with CVS Ocaml on amd64 with no problems,
> haven't tried 3.08.4 yet]

Yep, the abi changes still seem to be an ongoing concern in some
packages.  That said, Ubuntu is in a lot better shape than Debian Sid
was a few weeks ago (not suprising since Ubuntu have been at it since
April).  G++ is now more standards compliant (this caused me some
grief with L4 Pistachio, I'd bet some software has similar issues) and
has resolved some C++ linking issues, so it's a good thing all round.


Cheers,
Chris

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[skaller]

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On Fri, 2005-08-26 at 13:21 +0100, Chris Campbell wrote:
> On 26/08/05, skaller <skaller@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> 
> Btw, how well does Hoary run on your AMD64 bit machine? 

Felix microthreading performance test involves a simple C++ virtual
function call across an abstraction layer which physically prevents
any optimisation.

Windows XP, Cygwin, gcc3.3:   0.2 Mtrx/sec
Ubuntu: gcc-4.0:              1.0 Mtrx/sec

This is on the same box, dual booted :)
I haven't run any ocamlopt comparisons.

>  I was hanging
> off installing the 64bit version because I heard it had problems.

Show me a system without problems .. ??

-- 
John Skaller <skaller at users dot sourceforge dot net>


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Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Sven Luther]

On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 10:51:21PM +0100, Chris Campbell wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is it safe to install LablGL on Breezy?  It wants to remove nvidia-glx
> and libgl1-xorg.  I'm running breezy to test it and know the risks
> about using an unstable distro (i ran sid for a year).  Don't want to
> remove anything critical.
> 
> Will OCaml 3.08.4 feature in Breezy (thinking of the 64 bit fixes specifically)?

Notice that ubuntu doesn't really have ocaml packages, just rebuild debian
ones, so why not use the real thing ? :)

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[skaller]

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On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 00:46 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 10:51:21PM +0100, Chris Campbell wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Is it safe to install LablGL on Breezy?  It wants to remove nvidia-glx
> > and libgl1-xorg.  I'm running breezy to test it and know the risks
> > about using an unstable distro (i ran sid for a year).  Don't want to
> > remove anything critical.
> > 
> > Will OCaml 3.08.4 feature in Breezy (thinking of the 64 bit fixes specifically)?
> 
> Notice that ubuntu doesn't really have ocaml packages, just rebuild debian
> ones, so why not use the real thing ? :)

There are some differences I have discovered, for example
Debian and Ubuntu use distinct documentation 'help' systems.

Ubuntu rebuilding of Debian Ocaml docs gets me all the
nice Documentation .. using the Debian packages directly
does not.

Another problem is that the package dependencies
can mess up.

And: Debian does not support AMD64. Ubuntu does.

I actually think GODI is better than all, since it
doesn't have any concept of a 'distribution': source building
is the way to go with Ocaml, since Ocaml, unlike C, is reliable
and fast to build.

-- 
John Skaller <skaller at users dot sourceforge dot net>


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Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Sven Luther]

On Sat, Aug 27, 2005 at 10:04:57AM +1000, skaller wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 00:46 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 10:51:21PM +0100, Chris Campbell wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Is it safe to install LablGL on Breezy?  It wants to remove nvidia-glx
> > > and libgl1-xorg.  I'm running breezy to test it and know the risks
> > > about using an unstable distro (i ran sid for a year).  Don't want to
> > > remove anything critical.
> > > 
> > > Will OCaml 3.08.4 feature in Breezy (thinking of the 64 bit fixes specifically)?
> > 
> > Notice that ubuntu doesn't really have ocaml packages, just rebuild debian
> > ones, so why not use the real thing ? :)
> 
> There are some differences I have discovered, for example
> Debian and Ubuntu use distinct documentation 'help' systems.

Cosmetical and external stuff though, It is still the debian ocaml packagers
who do all the job.

> Ubuntu rebuilding of Debian Ocaml docs gets me all the
> nice Documentation .. using the Debian packages directly
> does not.
> 
> Another problem is that the package dependencies
> can mess up.

Should not, as far as i can tell it is mostly a plain rebuild, but well.

> And: Debian does not support AMD64. Ubuntu does.

Sure, Debian does support AMD64, it is not in the official archive yet (and
will not be for sarge), but the amd64 archive is available (don't remember
where though) and support in both debian-installer and sarge-security is
there, so ...

> I actually think GODI is better than all, since it
> doesn't have any concept of a 'distribution': source building
> is the way to go with Ocaml, since Ocaml, unlike C, is reliable
> and fast to build.

Bah. 

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[skaller]

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On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 03:21 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:

> > There are some differences I have discovered, for example
> > Debian and Ubuntu use distinct documentation 'help' systems.
> 
> Cosmetical and external stuff though, It is still the debian ocaml packagers
> who do all the job.

Cosmetic and external stuff though, it is still Inria developers
that do the main job .. :)

> > And: Debian does not support AMD64. Ubuntu does.
> 
> Sure, Debian does support AMD64, it is not in the official archive yet

It's on Alioth, my ISP doesn't mirror it, and the same quality
control isn't applied to it, since it is still under development.

-- 
John Skaller <skaller at users dot sourceforge dot net>


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Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Christophe TROESTLER]

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, skaller <skaller@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> 
> And: Debian does not support AMD64. Ubuntu does.

http://www.debian.org/ports/amd64/

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Sven Luther]

On Sat, Aug 27, 2005 at 09:49:06PM +1000, skaller wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 03:21 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> 
> > > There are some differences I have discovered, for example
> > > Debian and Ubuntu use distinct documentation 'help' systems.
> > 
> > Cosmetical and external stuff though, It is still the debian ocaml packagers
> > who do all the job.
> 
> Cosmetic and external stuff though, it is still Inria developers
> that do the main job .. :)

Well, there is certainly more in the debian packages than just a documentation
hook change and a rebuild, but sure, we all know who makes the main work.

> > > And: Debian does not support AMD64. Ubuntu does.
> > 
> > Sure, Debian does support AMD64, it is not in the official archive yet
> 
> It's on Alioth, my ISP doesn't mirror it, and the same quality
> control isn't applied to it, since it is still under development.

there are mirrors around, ftp2.de.debian.org carries it for example, not sure
if ftp2.fr.debian.org does. As for under development, sorry, but that is pure
FUD, the only reason it is not in the archive, is because of mirror space and
bandwidth consideration in the archive. The security team supports it, and it
was released at the same time as debian/sarge, so as far as quality control is
going, it is there.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[skaller]

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On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 21:47 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:

> > It's on Alioth, my ISP doesn't mirror it, and the same quality
> > control isn't applied to it, since it is still under development.
> 
> there are mirrors around, ftp2.de.debian.org carries it for example, not sure
> if ftp2.fr.debian.org does. As for under development, sorry, but that is pure
> FUD,

I quote from Debian web based package manager:

"Note that AMD64 is not officialy included in the Debian archive yet,
but the AMD64 porter group keeps their archive in sync with the official
archive as close as possible. See the AMD64 ports page for current
information."

My ISP does not provide Debian AMD64 binaries ..  
I use my ISP's mirror because I do not
have to pay to download from it. 

-- 
John Skaller <skaller at users dot sourceforge dot net>


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Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Sven Luther]

On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 02:58:11AM +1000, skaller wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 21:47 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> 
> > > It's on Alioth, my ISP doesn't mirror it, and the same quality
> > > control isn't applied to it, since it is still under development.
> > 
> > there are mirrors around, ftp2.de.debian.org carries it for example, not sure
> > if ftp2.fr.debian.org does. As for under development, sorry, but that is pure
> > FUD,
> 
> I quote from Debian web based package manager:
> 
> "Note that AMD64 is not officialy included in the Debian archive yet,
> but the AMD64 porter group keeps their archive in sync with the official
> archive as close as possible. See the AMD64 ports page for current
> information."

Well, you missed :

 http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/debian-security-announce-2005/msg00160.html

And similar announcement, sarge for amd64 is released, and there is security,
what else do you want ? 

> My ISP does not provide Debian AMD64 binaries ..  
> I use my ISP's mirror because I do not
> have to pay to download from it. 

That is bad luck for you, and i suggest you switch to a reasonable ISP :)

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Chris Campbell]

Thanks everyone.  Now opengl is working, but for some reason native
linking fails with some X errors.

ocamlfind ocamlopt -package 'lablgl lablgl.glut' -linkpkg -I maths -I
polygonizer -thread  -cclib -lX11 -o xpoly d3maths.cmxa
polygonizer/octree.cmx polygonizer/polygonizer.cmx
polygonizer/testSurfaces.cmx polygonizer/poly.cmx

/usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.a(glxcmds.o): In function `glXGetMscRateOML':
: undefined reference to `XF86VidModeQueryVersion'
/usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.a(glxcmds.o): In function `glXGetMscRateOML':
: undefined reference to `XF86VidModeGetModeLine'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
Error during linking

Any ideas?  I could run the program in the byte interpreter, but the
implicit surface polygonizer is ****extremely slow**** (it isn't
discarding enough cubes or doing enough memoization yet - infact
memoization made it worse, doubling the time it took* :'( ) and there
are peculiar artifacts which I'm trying to debug.


Chris

*In case anyone is interested here are some timings without rendering:

Without Memoization:
real    0m16.210s
user    0m15.816s
sys     0m0.097s

With Memoization (Hashtbl):
real    0m34.221s
user    0m33.016s
sys     0m0.353s

This is an Athlon 64 3200 and all it does is render a torus. :@

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[skaller]

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On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 20:17 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:

> Well, you missed :
> 
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/debian-security-announce-2005/msg00160.html
> 
> And similar announcement, sarge for amd64 is released, and there is security,
> what else do you want ? 

In which you missed:

"It covers all security updates since the release of sarge, which were
missing updated packages for the not yet official amd64 port. "

> > My ISP does not provide Debian AMD64 binaries ..  
> > I use my ISP's mirror because I do not
> > have to pay to download from it. 
> 
> That is bad luck for you, and i suggest you switch to a reasonable ISP :)

Not bad luck, its the best ISP in Australia. They have free
downloads of 13 or so Linux distributions including Debian,
and their sister company runs their own wires.

In answer to your question "what else do you want", I want
Debian to make the amd64 port *official* so the autobuilder,
and not a portage group, synchronises the archive, builds
boot CD/DVDs, and my ISP mirrors it. I'm *already* using a port, 
namely Ubuntu (which has considerably more resources than
the Debian amd64 porters).

-- 
John Skaller <skaller at users dot sourceforge dot net>


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Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Julien Cristau]

On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 09:56:57 +0200, Chris Campbell wrote:

> Thanks everyone.  Now opengl is working, but for some reason native
> linking fails with some X errors.
> 
> ocamlfind ocamlopt -package 'lablgl lablgl.glut' -linkpkg -I maths -I
> polygonizer -thread  -cclib -lX11 -o xpoly d3maths.cmxa
> polygonizer/octree.cmx polygonizer/polygonizer.cmx
> polygonizer/testSurfaces.cmx polygonizer/poly.cmx
> 
> /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.a(glxcmds.o): In function `glXGetMscRateOML':
> : undefined reference to `XF86VidModeQueryVersion'
> /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.a(glxcmds.o): In function `glXGetMscRateOML':
> : undefined reference to `XF86VidModeGetModeLine'
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> Error during linking
> 
Hi,

this sounds like you're using the proprietary nvidia driver, which
causes this link problem (lablgl itself doesn't reference symbols in
libxxf86vm, but the libGL provided by nvidia seems to do and to not be
correctly linked with it).
Try building with libGL from xorg instead of nvidia (for example in a
clean chroot).

Hope this helps,
Julien

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Johann Spies]

On Sat, Aug 27, 2005 at 10:04:57AM +1000, skaller wrote:
> 
> I actually think GODI is better than all, since it
> doesn't have any concept of a 'distribution': source building
> is the way to go with Ocaml, since Ocaml, unlike C, is reliable
> and fast to build.
> 

I suppose one has to choose either the Debian packages or Godi.  If I
am correct you cannot mix the two?

Regards
Johann
-- 
Johann Spies          Telefoon: 021-808 4036
Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch

     "For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that  
      increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow."        
                                   Ecclesiastes 1:18 

Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[skaller]

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On Thu, 2005-09-01 at 10:56 +0200, Johann Spies wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2005 at 10:04:57AM +1000, skaller wrote:
> > 
> > I actually think GODI is better than all, since it
> > doesn't have any concept of a 'distribution': source building
> > is the way to go with Ocaml, since Ocaml, unlike C, is reliable
> > and fast to build.
> > 
> 
> I suppose one has to choose either the Debian packages or Godi.  If I
> am correct you cannot mix the two?

At present I believe that is correct. However, it doesn't
seem impossible to provide 'dummy' equivalent Debian
packages which you can install with GODI to fool other Debian
packages into believing certain packages are installed
(well, the code *is* installed, just not by Debian).

OTOH, GODI could be a Debian package .. and Debian
packages could be built which install the equivalent
code using GODI.

The question is whether it is worth it: GODI can serve
the heavy Ocaml user on platforms Debian can't 
(because they're not Debian ..). OTOH a lighter user
would find Debian more convenient. IMHO. So it is good
to have both, and not clear if there would be much
advantage making them interoperate.

A final alternative (what I use, actually), BOTH: 
Debian does the 'master' install in /usr/*, whilst Godi
installs in /usr/local/godi: by default I am using
the Debian packages, but if I want to play with the
latest CVS Ocaml, I would use GODI, since it knows
when and how to rebuild libraries from source.

I think this is pretty nice, provided under GODI
build I don't accidentally use Debian tool .. which
is possible since they're always in the path.


-- 
John Skaller <skaller at users dot sourceforge dot net>


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Re: [Caml-list] LablGL on Ubuntu?

[Johann Spies]

On Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 11:29:16PM +1000, skaller wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-09-01 at 10:56 +0200, Johann Spies wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 27, 2005 at 10:04:57AM +1000, skaller wrote:
> > > 
> > > I actually think GODI is better than all, since it
> > > doesn't have any concept of a 'distribution': source building
> > > is the way to go with Ocaml, since Ocaml, unlike C, is reliable
> > > and fast to build.
> > > 
> > 
> > I suppose one has to choose either the Debian packages or Godi.  If I
> > am correct you cannot mix the two?
> 
> At present I believe that is correct. However, it doesn't
> seem impossible to provide 'dummy' equivalent Debian
> packages which you can install with GODI to fool other Debian
> packages into believing certain packages are installed
> (well, the code *is* installed, just not by Debian).
...
> A final alternative (what I use, actually), BOTH: 
> Debian does the 'master' install in /usr/*, whilst Godi
> installs in /usr/local/godi: by default I am using
> the Debian packages, but if I want to play with the
> latest CVS Ocaml, I would use GODI, since it knows
> when and how to rebuild libraries from source.

For CPAN there I can use 

dh-make-perl --build --cpan <cpan module>

to create a debian package which I then can install with dpkg if
necessary.

Will it be very difficult to develop a similar utility for Godi?

Regards
Johann
-- 
Johann Spies          Telefoon: 021-808 4036
Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch

     "But God said to him, You fool! This very night your
      soul is required of you; and now who will own what you
      have prepared? So is the man who lays up treasure for
      himself, and is not rich toward God."           
                                        Luke 12:20,21