From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_NEUTRAL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Delivered-To: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Received: from mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.105]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C624BBAF for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2009 15:21:18 +0100 (CET) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Au4BAF8njUnRVdsVkGdsb2JhbACKEIMEhmU/AQEBAQkJDAcRA6p6jXsBAwEDhBcGhB4 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,396,1231110000"; d="scan'208";a="34882103" Received: from mail-ew0-f21.google.com ([209.85.219.21]) by mail4-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 07 Feb 2009 15:21:18 +0100 Received: by ewy14 with SMTP id 14so4952990ewy.9 for ; Sat, 07 Feb 2009 06:21:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wzgTXjrfLeODmFQk1jGFE3i5/odqoeqyz8PuyFcrIQo=; b=jIb7CaPoeM+Jn/tWVN/WLpOZardQoTQ/ofNAfvcIQSLvuslrkryZGTeN4ifgDb4PpZ qwYWA8nqpvZaFn17m2+n9gpEJYg44tlBAHQuOsAJECG8TqUXpwyKrr5Za5Gs0tUEHsCK Jh96SIZd6fTGyvftM0cAAt2SQ33CEx2kqtkcU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=T4VarJL+LWiES1EvX76DZdKrsCjRqbm+xXrZ/8ON4+DARiZpc9If1cLG4GBehlXAN6 xw2T07+yqPoy1A+hxqKsK3+4iezJLE3mt9RsXw+1s1/zj97VSfYrEMa2fEF+1Pzuux+x tsLyiFFwAeLIsSNcZZTgReCPf/91593681fm8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: mikkelfj@gmail.com Received: by 10.210.12.18 with SMTP id 18mr2229503ebl.110.1234016477674; Sat, 07 Feb 2009 06:21:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1233936696.6216.65.camel@Blefuscu> References: <1233936696.6216.65.camel@Blefuscu> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 15:21:17 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2f38486bef3b3f66 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Caml-list] [ANN] OCaml Batteries Included, alpha 3 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mikkel_Fahn=C3=B8e_J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: David Rajchenbach-Teller Cc: OCaml Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocaml:01 mikkel:01 rgensen:01 mikkel:01 ocaml:01 inference:01 findlib:01 ocamlmklib:01 ens-lyon:01 univ-orleans:01 lifo:01 beginner's:01 bug:01 2009:98 frs:98 Great work. I just quickly scanned the Batteries slideshow. Regarding the analysis of popular languages, I agree. But I think one very important aspect is being overlooked: I think the build system is extremely important, just after library support= . I believe the success of "scripting" and especially dynamic typing is that you can just write some code and run it. Rarely do have to consider make files etc. Of course, the problem sometimes just multiplies so all end users have to deal with installing the proper libraries, but this is partially offset by having good standard libraries. I also believe the success of dynamic typing is mostly due to the fact that you can just get starting doing whatever you like. Fortunately for OCaml this is also true for type inference, and I think this is why so many Ruby programmers also look a little into OCaml. I think the build environment is one of OCamls great weaknesses and that we need to improve here before the language well ever go mainstream. Most of these problems relate to a comparatively complex ocaml tool chain, but another problem is the tendency of library writers to delibarately use non-portable tools where they are not really needed - simply because others do the same and eventually it just becomes to difficult to support cross platform builds. So in conclusion, Batteries is a very important contribution but we must also improve on the tool chains and build environment. ocamlbuild, flexdll, cross platform findlib and ocamlmklib are all steps in the right direction. Mikkel 2009/2/6 David Rajchenbach-Teller : > Dear list, > > We're happy to inform you that OCaml Batteries Included alpha 3 is now > available for download [1] and/or GODI installation. You may find the > new documentation on-line [2], as well as release notes [3], extended > release notes [4] and the slides for the OCaml Meeting talk [5]. The > list of changes is a tad too long to present here, but the important > part is that we're progressing towards maturity. > > Enjoy! > > The OCaml Batteries Included team > > [1] http://forge.ocamlcore.org/frs/?group_id=3D17&release_id=3D73 > [2] > http://forge.ocamlcore.org/docman/index.php?group_id=3D17&selected_doc_gr= oup_id=3D59&language_id=3D1 > [3] https://forge.ocamlcore.org/frs/shownotes.php?release_id=3D73 > [4] > http://dutherenverseauborddelatable.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/ocaml-batter= ies-included-alpha-3/ > [5] > http://forge.ocamlcore.org/docman/index.php?group_id=3D77&selected_doc_gr= oup_id=3D84&language_id=3D1 > > -- > David Teller-Rajchenbach > Security of Distributed Systems > http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller > =C2=AB Ce matin Un cr=C3=A9tin A tu=C3=A9 un chercheur. =C2=BB (air con= nu) > Latest News of French Research: System being liquidated. Researchers an= gry. > > _______________________________________________ > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: > http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list > Archives: http://caml.inria.fr > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs >