From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by c5ff346549e7 (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFF495D5 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2018 00:58:41 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,328,1539640800"; d="scan'208";a="359369924" Received: from sympa.inria.fr ([193.51.193.213]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 08 Dec 2018 01:58:40 +0100 Received: by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix, from userid 20132) id D1CB3824CF; Sat, 8 Dec 2018 01:58:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6FD5824CF for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2018 01:58:33 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; spf=None smtp.pra=daniel.buenzli@erratique.ch; spf=None smtp.mailfrom=daniel.buenzli@erratique.ch; spf=None smtp.helo=postmaster@smtp.webfaction.com IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3AlBNWfRNR8l0lWB/fZmMl6mtUPXoX/o7sNwtQ0KIM?= =?us-ascii?q?zox0Iv7+rarrMEGX3/hxlliBBdydt6oUzbKO+4nbGkU4qa6bt34DdJEeHzQksu?= =?us-ascii?q?4x2zIaPcieFEfgJ+TrZSFpVO5LVVti4m3peRMNQJW2aFLduGC94iAPERvjKwV1?= =?us-ascii?q?Ov71GonPhMiryuy+4ZLebxlLiTanfb9+MAi9oBnMuMURnYZsMLs6xAHTontPde?= =?us-ascii?q?RWxGdoKkyWkh3h+Mq+/4Nt/jpJtf45+MFOTav1f6IjTbxFFzsmKHw65NfqtRbY?= =?us-ascii?q?UwSC4GYXX3gMnRpJBwjF6wz6Xov0vyDnuOdxxDWWMMvrRr0vRz+s87lkRwPpiC?= =?us-ascii?q?cfNj427mfXitBrjKlGpB6tvgFzz5LIbI2QMvd1Y6HTcs4ARWdZUMhfVzJPDIC+?= =?us-ascii?q?YIsBEuQPOulXoJXyqVQTtha+GRCsCfnzxjJSmnP736s32PkhHwHc2wwgGsoDvn?= =?us-ascii?q?rOo9XzNacdT+S1w7HVwC3fafNX2DP96InVeR0mvP6DR7RwccvPxkkrDQ/KlUiQ?= =?us-ascii?q?ppLjPzKU0uQNsnOW4PR6VeK1kWEntwBxoiGyxsgykIXGmoIVx0nC+C5kw4g1Pc?= =?us-ascii?q?W1RUBmbdK+DZddtT2WO5FrTs88TWxkojs2x7MJtJKjYSQHypcqywTCZ/GDcYWE?= =?us-ascii?q?+AzvWPiRLDtimn5oeK+zihCv+ka60OL8TNO70FNSoypFjNbMsncN2gTI6siCVv?= =?us-ascii?q?t95l2t2DiR2A/I5OFLO1w7lbbaK54mxL48jIYcsUPGHiPumUX2irGZdlk89+Wm?= =?us-ascii?q?9ujreKjqq52AO4Nulw3yLKojltaiDek2PQUCR22b9v691L3n8035WrJKjvgun6?= =?us-ascii?q?bEqp/aI8UbqbC9AwNPyYkj9giwDzGn0dQcnHkKN0xKeAidj4fzJ1HOIen4Deqh?= =?us-ascii?q?jFi2jDhrx+jKPqf9DZXVMnjDjLDhcK5h5EFGzQozyclT55ZVCrEaPPL+QVTxtd?= =?us-ascii?q?zdDh8hKQO42efnCNNn1oMfQ22DGKGZMLmB+WOPs9kzovGMbYkYjxn5LP4p+ra6?= =?us-ascii?q?lmM0gV81cq2u25cKLna1AqI1DV+eZC/Ai9EAHGM9lJ44XujrwAmOWDhSanL0Vb?= =?us-ascii?q?8x4CM/CaqrF53KWoG0nbHH1yftTc4eXXxPFl3ZSSSgTI6DQfpZLXvKepYwwAxB?= =?us-ascii?q?bqCoTsoa7T/rsQb7z7R9Ke+Npn8Vr4jqyNls+uCVnhFgrWUoXfTY6HmESiRPpk?= =?us-ascii?q?1NXyU/hfwtrFZnw0uCyLV1xfdYR4QKuqF5FzwiPJuZ9NRUTtD/XgWbJ4WSTUq+?= =?us-ascii?q?BMqrCz84Rc4wxNlIaEF4SY2v?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AnMgD4FQtce4Z7qh9kHgEGBwaBZQKBV?= =?us-ascii?q?IIEEieDeoh4jT+ZSQ0sgUuCdQKDNQYGNBIBAwEBAgEBAQEBEwEBCQ0KByMBAQQ?= =?us-ascii?q?vQgEOAYFkJAGCYgEEASNWBQsLGgIYDgICRxAGE4UbDKYLgS+FQINfgQ2BC4Rag?= =?us-ascii?q?SxihkWBEYIUUC6FAYMEglcCjzuRLAcCgRWQToljh1WDAJYbgV2BdoFAgmyCJxe?= =?us-ascii?q?OHj4zgQeFOIUlAQE?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AnMgD4FQtce4Z7qh9kHgEGBwaBZQKBVIIEEieDeoh4jT+?= =?us-ascii?q?ZSQ0sgUuCdQKDNQYGNBIBAwEBAgEBAQEBEwEBCQ0KByMBAQQvQgEOAYFkJAGCY?= =?us-ascii?q?gEEASNWBQsLGgIYDgICRxAGE4UbDKYLgS+FQINfgQ2BC4RagSxihkWBEYIUUC6?= =?us-ascii?q?FAYMEglcCjzuRLAcCgRWQToljh1WDAJYbgV2BdoFAgmyCJxeOHj4zgQeFOIUlA?= =?us-ascii?q?QE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,328,1539640800"; d="scan'208";a="288335273" Received: from mail6.webfaction.com (HELO smtp.webfaction.com) ([31.170.123.134]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Dec 2018 01:58:32 +0100 Received: from hehey.local.mail (251.225.197.178.dynamic.wless.zhbmb00p-cgnat.res.cust.swisscom.ch [178.197.225.251]) by smtp.webfaction.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 80E956004AB96; Sat, 8 Dec 2018 00:58:13 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2018 01:58:30 +0100 From: =?utf-8?Q?Daniel_B=C3=BCnzli?= To: =?utf-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Glondu?= Cc: Ocaml Mailing List Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <947dc3fd-50b3-28d4-c72e-64efc3d6f8de@glondu.net> References: <20181126101448.3ee5jgz4c6ulsbbr@first.in-berlin.de> <20181206122150.thwapr3vvudue35g@annexia.org> <20181206201823.m2ii6nm4m72qwyym@annexia.org> <947dc3fd-50b3-28d4-c72e-64efc3d6f8de@glondu.net> X-Mailer: Airmail (528) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh of them? Reply-To: =?utf-8?Q?Daniel_B=C3=BCnzli?= X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Sequence: 17232 Errors-to: caml-list-owner@inria.fr Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: caml-list-request@inria.fr X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: =C2=A0On 7 December 2018 at 14:22:06, St=C3=A9phane Glondu (steph@glondu.ne= t) wrote: > If everybody had agreed on a single language, we wouldn't need all these > language specific package managers either :-) Replace "language" by > "operating system" or "platform" or ... This comparison is entirely inadequate. Distribution tarballs are distribut= ion tarballs. The fact that linux distros/bsds/whatever are not even able t= o agree on a single name and version number for the same tarballs and that = we need to lose our time to maintain mappings on how each random distributi= on names the same fucking software artefact should be a hint that this is *= not* about agreeing on a single language and platform but rather a problem = in consistent human stupidity. > Each package manager has its own set of features ("developer > friendly"-ness is just a matter of taste IMHO)... You sound like system > package managers have no features, but the example you give > ("distinguish what you want to compile a project from what you want for > your system") is supported by the Debian toolchain (and I guess others). This obsession about features is quite interesting, always this myth about = the more features the better... Maybe opam does only the 5% of your truly a= wesome system package managers but it does so in a relatively lean way, tha= t is adequate for development and allows to define and maintain (at the ris= k of repeating myself) packages universes accross your pet distribution and= /or operating system.=C2=A0 You are all most welcome to live in your distro and package manager bubbles= and idiosyncrasies but don't start claiming they are able to provide what = opam and OCaml opam repository currently provide because they simply do not. > I haven't been very much impressed by opam (I mean, the package manager > itself) so far, actually there are basic features that are missing (or > not obvious) in opam (such as redistributable binary packages). Opam is far from perfect and I have many concerns about its current usabili= ty. But the basic feature you mention is missing is absolutely unuseful to = solve the problem opam is solving right now (see above in case that is stil= l not clear). > I don't believe=C2=A0the existence of a "single package manager" as you h= ypothesized would > have prevented the proliferation of language specific package managers. I gave one explanation, I don't claim that this is it, but at least provide= a competing one. So far you did not so maybe you should try to reflect a b= it more on the problem. I don't think anyone here would be sad to see langu= age specific package managers go and frankly I'm pretty sure both opam deve= lopers and opam repository maintainers would be glad to spend their time on= more fun projects. Best, Daniel =C2=A0 --=20 Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list https://inbox.ocaml.org/caml-list Forum: https://discuss.ocaml.org/ Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs=