[Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[eijiro_sumii]

Hello,

I have a question about the polymorphic equality and exceptions: it
seems to me that the behaviour of "=" is counter-intuitive with
respect to pattern matching of exceptions, for example as follows.

        Objective Caml version 3.01

# exception Foo;;
exception Foo
# let e = Foo;;
val e : exn = Foo
# exception Foo;;
exception Foo
# let e' = Foo;;
val e' : exn = Foo
# e = e';;
- : bool = true
# match e with Foo -> true | _ -> false;;
- : bool = false
# try raise e with Foo -> ();;
Uncaught exception: Foo.
# 

I know that the two Foo's above should be distinct, but then shouldn't
e = e' also return false?  Is this issue well known?

	Eijiro
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Re: [Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[Nils Goesche]

eijiro_sumii@anet.ne.jp writes:

> I have a question about the polymorphic equality and exceptions: it
> seems to me that the behaviour of "=" is counter-intuitive with
> respect to pattern matching of exceptions, for example as follows.
> 
>         Objective Caml version 3.01
> 
> # exception Foo;;
> exception Foo
> # let e = Foo;;
> val e : exn = Foo
> # exception Foo;;
> exception Foo
> # let e' = Foo;;
> val e' : exn = Foo
> # e = e';;
> - : bool = true
> # match e with Foo -> true | _ -> false;;
> - : bool = false
> # try raise e with Foo -> ();;
> Uncaught exception: Foo.
> # 
> 
> I know that the two Foo's above should be distinct, but then shouldn't
> e = e' also return false?  Is this issue well known?

I can't see any ``issue'' here:

# e == e';;
- : bool = false

# try raise e with e -> ();;
- : unit = ()

Isn't that just fine?

Regards,
-- 
Nils Goesche
"Don't ask for whom the <CTRL-G> tolls."

PGP key ID 0x42B32FC9

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Re: [Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[Xavier Urbain]

On  July 16, 2001, Nils Goesche wrote: 

 > # e == e';;
 > - : bool = false
 > 
 > # try raise e with e -> ();;
 > - : unit = ()
 > 
 > Isn't that just fine?
 > 

Indeed but the fact that Foo was defined twice makes 
# e = e' 
- : bool = false
look weird. 


Xavier Urbain		
---------------------------------------------------------------
L.R.I., Bât 490                    mailto: Xavier.Urbain@lri.fr
Université de Paris-Sud            phoneto:  (33) 1 69 15 42 32
F-91405 Orsay cedex                faxto:    (33) 1 69 15 65 86

     http://www.lri.fr/demons/urbain/introduction.fr.html
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Re: [Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[Xavier Urbain]

On Monday July 16, 2001, Xavier Urbain wrote: 
 > # e = e' 
 > - : bool = false
 > look weird. 

My mistake, I meant
 # e = e' 
 - : bool = true
 look weird.


Xavier Urbain		
---------------------------------------------------------------
L.R.I., Bât 490                    mailto: Xavier.Urbain@lri.fr
Université de Paris-Sud            phoneto:  (33) 1 69 15 42 32
F-91405 Orsay cedex                faxto:    (33) 1 69 15 65 86

     http://www.lri.fr/demons/urbain/introduction.fr.html
---------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[Nils Goesche]

Xavier Urbain <Xavier.Urbain@lri.fr> writes:

> On Monday July 16, 2001, Xavier Urbain wrote: 
>  > # e = e' 
>  > - : bool = false
>  > look weird. 
> 
> My mistake, I meant
>  # e = e' 
>  - : bool = true
>  look weird.

I guess I had too much exposure to Common Lisp with all those eq, equ,
equal, equalp, =, string= and God knows what operators :-)
-- 
Nils Goesche
"Don't ask for whom the <CTRL-G> tolls."

PGP key ID 0x42B32FC9

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Re: [Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[Pierre Weis]

> Hello,
> 
> I have a question about the polymorphic equality and exceptions: it
> seems to me that the behaviour of "=" is counter-intuitive with
> respect to pattern matching of exceptions, for example as follows.

Exception definitions are generative in Caml: it means that the
definition of two exceptions with the same names generate two
different exceptions that are not confused by the language. It is
similar to type definitions, and constructors for sum type.

On the other hand, the structural equality (=) when applied to
exceptions and constructors is not completely specified, hence
unreliable. 

Hence:

>         Objective Caml version 3.01
> 
> # exception Foo;;
> exception Foo
> # let e = Foo;;
> val e : exn = Foo
> # exception Foo;;
> exception Foo

This (new) exception Foo is different from the preceding (old) one:
the language will not confuse them.

> # let e' = Foo;;
> val e' : exn = Foo
> # e = e';;
> - : bool = true

Here, you learn that (old) Foo and (new) Foo are structurally
equivalent, i.e. represented by equivalent Caml values (e.g. the same
string).

> # match e with Foo -> true | _ -> false;;
> - : bool = false

Yes, (old) Foo is not confused with (new) Foo.

> # try raise e with Foo -> ();;
> Uncaught exception: Foo.

Once more the two exceptions are not confused.

> I know that the two Foo's above should be distinct, but then shouldn't
> e = e' also return false?  Is this issue well known?

You're right, having e <> e' should be desirable. However, in this
case you should not test structural equality, since it is very likely
the case that e and e' are represented by the same kind of value. You
should test identity (==) instead:

# e == e';;
- : bool = false

That's what the compiler generates when pattern matching exception
values (more precisely it uses == for the exception constructor and
regular pattern matching for the rest of the pattern).

Hope this helps,

Pierre Weis

INRIA, Projet Cristal, Pierre.Weis@inria.fr, http://pauillac.inria.fr/~weis/


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Re: [Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[eijiro_sumii]

> On the other hand, the structural equality (=) when applied to
> exceptions and constructors is not completely specified, hence
> unreliable. 

I see, this makes sense - indeed, exn is not an equality type in SML.

> You're right, having e <> e' should be desirable. However, in this
> case you should not test structural equality, since it is very likely
> the case that e and e' are represented by the same kind of value. You
> should test identity (==) instead:
> 
> # e == e';;
> - : bool = false
> 
> That's what the compiler generates when pattern matching exception
> values (more precisely it uses == for the exception constructor and
> regular pattern matching for the rest of the pattern).

Several people have suggested using == instead of =, but doing so
seems even more problematic because:

        Objective Caml version 3.01

# exception Foo;;
exception Foo
# Foo == Foo;;
- : bool = false
# 

Regards,

	Eijiro
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Re: [Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[Nils Goesche]

eijiro_sumii@anet.ne.jp writes:

> > On the other hand, the structural equality (=) when applied to
> > exceptions and constructors is not completely specified, hence
> > unreliable. 
> 
> I see, this makes sense - indeed, exn is not an equality type in SML.
> 
> > You're right, having e <> e' should be desirable. However, in this
> > case you should not test structural equality, since it is very likely
> > the case that e and e' are represented by the same kind of value. You
> > should test identity (==) instead:
> > 
> > # e == e';;
> > - : bool = false
> > 
> > That's what the compiler generates when pattern matching exception
> > values (more precisely it uses == for the exception constructor and
> > regular pattern matching for the rest of the pattern).
> 
> Several people have suggested using == instead of =, but doing so
> seems even more problematic because:
> 
>         Objective Caml version 3.01
> 
> # exception Foo;;
> exception Foo
> # Foo == Foo;;
> - : bool = false
> # 

Hm, strange :-) Apparently, `Foo' is a constant constructor, and it
should work like this:

# type bingo = Bingo | Bongo;;
type bingo = Bingo | Bongo
# Bingo == Bingo;;
- : bool = true

OTOH, we also have

# 2 == 2;;
- : bool = true
# 2.0 == 2.0;;
- : bool = false

So, this still doesn't seem like a bug to me...

Regards,
-- 
Nils Goesche
"Don't ask for whom the <CTRL-G> tolls."

PGP key ID 0x42B32FC9

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Re: [Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[eijiro_sumii]

From: Nils Goesche <cartan@cartan.de>
> I can't see any ``issue'' here:
> 
> # e == e';;
> - : bool = false
> 
> # try raise e with e -> ();;
> - : unit = ()

Is this a kind of sophisticated joke or something?:-) It catches _any_
exception.

From: Nils Goesche <cartan@cartan.de>
> OTOH, we also have
> 
> # 2 == 2;;
> - : bool = true
> # 2.0 == 2.0;;
> - : bool = false
> 
> So, this still doesn't seem like a bug to me...

I've never said or even thought that "Foo == Foo" being false is a
bug; it just implies that constant exceptions are not "simple
single-word" objects (like integers and constant constructors) in
OCaml, I suppose, as floats are not.

	Eijiro
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Re: [Caml-list] exceptions and the polymorphic equality

[Nils Goesche]

eijiro_sumii@anet.ne.jp writes:

> From: Nils Goesche <cartan@cartan.de>
> > I can't see any ``issue'' here:
> > 
> > # e == e';;
> > - : bool = false
> > 
> > # try raise e with e -> ();;
> > - : unit = ()
> 
> Is this a kind of sophisticated joke or something?:-) It catches _any_
> exception.

>From which it follows as sure as hell that it'll catch the one you
wanted to catch, right?

Okok, I goofed, forget about it :-)

> From: Nils Goesche <cartan@cartan.de>
> > OTOH, we also have
> > 
> > # 2 == 2;;
> > - : bool = true
> > # 2.0 == 2.0;;
> > - : bool = false
> > 
> > So, this still doesn't seem like a bug to me...
> 
> I've never said or even thought that "Foo == Foo" being false is a
> bug; it just implies that constant exceptions are not "simple
> single-word" objects (like integers and constant constructors) in
> OCaml, I suppose, as floats are not.

Apparently.

Regards,
-- 
Nils Goesche
"Don't ask for whom the <CTRL-G> tolls."

PGP key ID 0x42B32FC9

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