From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/1521 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Peter Freyd Newsgroups: gmane.science.mathematics.categories Subject: Products redone Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <200005172009.QAA20086@saul.cis.upenn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1241017896 31636 80.91.229.2 (29 Apr 2009 15:11:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:11:36 +0000 (UTC) To: categories@mta.ca Original-X-From: rrosebru@mta.ca Wed May 17 22:41:35 2000 -0300 Original-Received: (from Majordom@localhost) by mailserv.mta.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA31889 for categories-list; Wed, 17 May 2000 22:40:28 -0300 (ADT) X-Authentication-Warning: mailserv.mta.ca: Majordom set sender to cat-dist@mta.ca using -f Original-Sender: cat-dist@mta.ca Precedence: bulk Original-Lines: 45 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.science.mathematics.categories:1521 Archived-At: Kai Bruennler asked: Is there a binary product in the category of sets and functions that is "strictly associative", i.e. A x (B x C) = (A x B) x C and the associativity isomorphisms are equal to the identity? I gave a construction using the axiom of choice. Well, we can do better. Fix on an ordered-pair construction, say Weiner's, and denote its values as . Let l be the left-coordinate function, r the right-coordinate function. Fix on a sequence of finite ordinals, say von Neumann's. Define, inductively, an n-TUPLE as something of the form where y is a (n-1)-tuple if n>1 else any old set if n=1. (There are no 0-tuples.) Note that the same set can be an n-tuple for any number of values for n. But if x is an n-tuple and we are given n then each of it's n coordinates is well-defined: x_1 = lx x_2 = l(rx) ... x_{n-1} = l(r(r(...r(rx)...))) x_n = r(r(r(...r(rx)...))) where there are i-1 applications of r used for x_i, one application of l used for x_i if i where x is an n-tuple such that x_i \in a_i each relevant i. If two sets x and y arise as pre-products, that is, if there are positive ordinals m and n and sets a_1, a_2,..., a_m, b_1, b_2, ...,b_n such that x is the pre-product of the a's and y is the product of the b's, then we define their PRODUCT as the (m+n)-fold pre-product of a_1, a_2,..., a_m, b_1, b_2,...,b_n. Define F(x) = x if x is a pre-product else { | y \in x}. Define the product of arbitrary x and y as the product of F(x) and F(y).