From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/3563 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Ronnie Brown" Newsgroups: gmane.science.mathematics.categories Subject: Re: What is needed for an online journal Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:10:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20675.8871711374$1241019380@news.gmane.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1241019379 9271 80.91.229.2 (29 Apr 2009 15:36:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:36:19 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: rrosebru@mta.ca Tue Jan 2 08:11:08 2007 -0400 X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 Original-Lines: 55 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.science.mathematics.categories:3563 Archived-At: Mike Barr has put his finger on the key points: papers are needed not = just as a contribution to the advancement of knowledge but also for = career prospects and the awarding of research grants, which are also = related to career prospects. Further there are the notions of `impact = factor' of various journals, and that of citation indices.=20 On the last, some Governments take the line that a journal to be rated = for research promotion has to be on the list of the Institute for = Scientific Information (ISI: http://scientific.thomson.com/). It is = possible that the UK Government, in moving to using `metrics' for = research impact, will take this line. A search of the ISI list shows = that it has of course journals of major publishers and of national = academic institutions, and that it claims to have a procedure for = adding journals to their list. But the operation of the listing is based = on the idea that not all journals need to be listed, in order to assess = significance. TAC is not on the list, and I think neither is NYJM, = Cahier. It is also difficult to get on the list, as evidence from = editors shows, and there is no evidence of an academic input to the ISI = procedures. The organisation is a commercial organisation, which has = some control of scientific information.=20 Eugene Garfield writes in 2004:=20 Garfield, Eugene] ARE YOU SUGGESTING ISI COVER THE LOWEST IMPACT = JOURNALS AND PASS LESS ATTENTION TO THE HIGHEST?=20 [Garfield, Eugene] WE CANNOT CONTROL HOW THE DATA IS USED. I HAVE DONE = MY BEST TO PREVENT ITS ABUSE BUT I HAVE NO POWER TO CONTROL IT.=20 Perhaps also mathematicians in research assessment forget the long time = scale of the impact of new ideas. It is very easy to rate work which is = related to famous problems. It is less easy to rate work which opens a = new range of ideas, as has category theory, for example. I am grateful = to David Corfield for pointing out a quotation from Rota's `Indiscrete = thoughts' p.48:=20 ``What can you prove with exterior algebra that you cannot prove without it?" Whenever you hear this question raised about some new piece of mathematics, be assured that you are likely to be in the presence of something important. In my time, I have heard it repeated for random variables, Laurent Schwartz' theory of distributions, ideles and Grothendieck's schemes, to mention only a few. A proper retort might be: ``You are right. There is nothing in yesterday's mathematics that could not also be proved without it. Exterior algebra is not meant to prove old facts, it is meant to disclose a new world. Disclosing new worlds is as worthwhile a mathematical enterprise as proving old conjectures. There is a discussion of ISI and related issues of impact factors etc in = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Scientific_Information Ronnie Brown www.bangor.ac.uk/r.brown