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I'm very grateful to Thomas for taking the first steps t= oward to facilitate such a preservation, by making kindly these manuscripts= available on his web site. Thomas's work to popularise the ideas of Jean B= =C3=A9nabou, through his many notes on fibred categories, distributors, etc= . have also been very influential to me. I applaud any further efforts tow= ard retyping and publishing of reprints as well =E2=80=94 the existing TAC = reprints (e.g. of Lawvere and others) have been invaluable for me as a rese= archer in the youngest generation trying to pick up the pieces of category = theory from the 'space age' that might otherwise be forgotten by people my = age if not for the efforts of our colleagues to preserve them. There's been too many times when I learned something first from a 'modern' = source, perhaps filtered through the viewpoint of logicians and computer sc= ientists, only to find that the primary source contains a much more compreh= ensive and satisfactory account. Taking up the challenge of preserving and = making more accessible the old manuscripts will also do a lot to combat the= perceived dominance of folklore in category theory. If there's anything I can do to support this work (including typesetting!),= I'm at your service. Thanks, Jon On Fri, Jan 19, 2024, at 11:34 AM, Thomas Streicher wrote: >> > I am fully aware that Jean was a controversial figure in his days. >>=20 >> Could you indicate what controversy this was? > > It started before I got into categorical circles in the mid 80s. > Some of its traces can be found on the categories list. > > One of the visible expressions is Jean's 1985 JSL article where he > devotes 2 pages explaining why his work was superior to the one of > Par'e and Schumacher in a way much more explicit than usual. > > As I understand it he presented his work 1974 in lectures of at Montreal. > A couple of years later Pare and Schumacher came up with their long > article phrasing things in the language of indexed cats. Jean > complained about certain defects of the latter approach. But as I > understand he was essentially upset that they published his material > before him. But he definitely was a perfectionist and the writing of > the book was never finished. > > That is the impression of a person who was not involved those days and > just knows things from rumour and what people said. > > I know Jean as a very polite person but also that under certain > circumstances he could easily "explode". > > I heard him talk the first time at Logic Colloquium in Firenze in 1982 > where he gave a very condensed version of his later JSL article > including the controversy. I noticed that there was an obvious tension > in the room. But I didn't care and rather got curious about fibered > categories. I received very early a copy of Roisin's handwritten notes > which I read with great delight. Over the years I got into it more and mo= re > and finally when asked to lecture on it in Munich in 1999 I strated to > prepare some notes for myself in order to not forget about material > which was not easily available. For me it is an indispensible tool for > doing category theory over arbitrary base toposes. > > Your question shows that a younger generation of category theorists > is not aware of those things. In a sense this is good so and normal since > it allows to look at things in a more objective way. > > But since this material was never really published and the copies I=20 > provided > are not of the best quality (see > https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/W-TlCJyBZ6tYLx8QfVWj1R?domain=3Dmathema= tik.tu-darmstadt.de)=20 > =20 > I > think it would be a service to the community to have them available in > more readable form. > > Whether it is necessary to translate them I am not so sure. > > In any case I am not interested in heating up an old and by now dead > conflict. > My intention just is to preserve important work for future generations > since I found reading it most delightful. > > I was told to make an official submission but could not find any form > for that. Rather have the impression that these things are decided by som= e > responsible board. It is their decision but it might be helpful to > express on the cat-list whether one is interested in the preservation > of this material. Just to find out whether it is worth the effort to > retype those things. > > Thomas > >=20 >=20 > You're receiving this message because you're a member of the Categories= =20 > mailing list group from Macquarie University. To take part in this=20 > conversation, reply all to this message.=20 >=20 > View group files=20 > =20 > | Leave group=20 > =20 > | Learn more about Microsoft 365 Groups --MCBoundary=_12401210118350171 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear Colleagues,

The works of Jean Bénabou and other pioneers of category theory dese= rve to be preserved. I'm very grateful to Thomas for taking the first steps= toward to facilitate such a preservation, by making kindly these manuscrip= ts available on his web site. Thomas's work to popularise the ideas of Jean= Bénabou, through his many notes on fibred categories, distributors,= etc. have also been very influential to me. I applaud any further efforts= toward retyping and publishing of reprints as well =E2=80=94 the existing = TAC reprints (e.g. of Lawvere and others) have been invaluable for me as a = researcher in the youngest generation trying to pick up the pieces of categ= ory theory from the 'space age' that might otherwise be forgotten by people= my age if not for the efforts of our colleagues to preserve them.

There's been too many times when I learned something first from a 'modern' = source, perhaps filtered through the viewpoint of logicians and computer sc= ientists, only to find that the primary source contains a much more compreh= ensive and satisfactory account. Taking up the challenge of preserving and = making more accessible the old manuscripts will also do a lot to combat the= perceived dominance of folklore in category theory.

If there's anything I can do to support this work (including typesetting!),= I'm at your service.

Thanks,
Jon

On Fri, Jan 19, 2024, at 11:34 AM, Thomas Streicher wrote:
>> > I am fully aware that Jean was a controversial figure in his = days.
>>
>> Could you indicate what controversy this was?
>
> It started before I got into categorical circles in the mid 80s.
> Some of its traces can be found on the categories list.
>
> One of the visible expressions is Jean's 1985 JSL article where he
> devotes 2 pages explaining why his work was superior to the one of
> Par'e and Schumacher in a way much more explicit than usual.
>
> As I understand it he presented his work 1974 in lectures of at Montre= al.
> A couple of years later Pare and Schumacher came up with their long > article phrasing things in the language of indexed cats. Jean
> complained about certain defects of the latter approach. But as I
> understand he was essentially upset that they published his material > before him. But he definitely was a perfectionist and the writing of > the book was never finished.
>
> That is the impression of a person who was not involved those days and=
> just knows things from rumour and what people said.
>
> I know Jean as a very polite person but also that under certain
> circumstances he could easily "explode".
>
> I heard him talk the first time at Logic Colloquium in Firenze in 1982=
> where he gave a very condensed version of his later JSL article
> including the controversy. I noticed that there was an obvious tension=
> in the room. But I didn't care and rather got curious about fibered > categories. I received very early a copy of Roisin's handwritten notes=
> which I read with great delight. Over the years I got into it more and= more
> and finally when asked to lecture on it in Munich in 1999 I strated to=
> prepare some notes for myself in order to not forget about material > which was not easily available. For me it is an indispensible tool for=
> doing category theory over arbitrary base toposes.
>
> Your question shows that a younger generation of category theorists > is not aware of those things. In a sense this is good so and normal si= nce
> it allows to look at things in a more objective way.
>
> But since this material was never really published and the copies I > provided
> are not of the best quality (see
> https://www2.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de/= ~streicher/FibCatTexts/)
> <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/Sq= gqCyoj8PuMEVoqcM2-CM?domain=3Dmathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>
> I
> think it would be a service to the community to have them available in=
> more readable form.
>
> Whether it is necessary to translate them I am not so sure.
>
> In any case I am not interested in heating up an old and by now dead > conflict.
> My intention just is to preserve important work for future generations=
> since I found reading it most delightful.
>
> I was told to make an official submission but could not find any form<= BR> > for that. Rather have the impression that these things are decided by = some
> responsible board. It is their decision but it might be helpful to
> express on the cat-list whether one is interested in the preservation<= BR> > of this material. Just to find out whether it is worth the effort to > retype those things.
>
> Thomas
>
>
>
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>
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