From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_HIGH,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HTML_MESSAGE,HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH,RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE,URIBL_SBL_A autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from AUS01-SY4-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sy4aus01hn2240.outbound.protection.outlook.com [52.100.199.240]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5614B22236 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:16:48 +0100 (CET) ARC-Seal: i=4; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=pass; b=dfLXtN3ByxCmLzqxD1G5SleJ4/UvNp4Ba6Dg8lP2w1U6JZiHNWi9ijYjhdMMfiCRmUGshwxnzWpjoDdpRQQV0QAL55Ond2ls2WV0pxmUlFXIVxlUtCN2RoEWjE5m0fgqdSxZjsXHOsx8u/mMcrcjjrdwzPwzwbMkLBCmtk6zTnQr9SqBKbAyYwWIJyybw8Xu39UGMuAFodTBqRUlgNA+aygPBIPTG79buTdue3Gpo9nEB3Foh3ea8/fZk22Cp/BuQDHs10cn3+YDV0PMd5FJqIVtmEJ2X3mNNZqMwLD2KLAPvLc+h1m4K2coPdefa5JHm5YlEbyKkxF5xgs9r4/Itg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=4; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=N57HVHanFYm3XXyOgKVJUJQsvf3HXNMz6w3OvJYgtic=; b=L4wA/WYzia55M2qYJOxc8/7igXkj/fMWNqAlNp00djAR8B6rF4W075R/Ce5b59BfRss2z+5E2VAXN5Zn/zQKVjZyCqkQC2V4kIi9DcXjp6M8ptFWjOyXQfAlxrF1EhA7Zs9kzT2qby6X/uWu2qWkIxibhgiUJIG8Psu5NihxgRL3yP7jZvN+Hvf5zErU5ZlQw+dhSwHSnkeI9FI/KwxVwxMygmLQV5TJFLdnrWNWPEIO4DCc3wmbo4sqEtC/CcLKvq0QRjwUrcg60nu/Iu8EVMwuZTzZmatWY7KlSmuI+U9dDFA9zmuZosyiqP2xJFpRSW74DmtLkD8SHNpGMDSn/A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=4; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass (sender ip is 66.111.4.28) smtp.rcpttodomain=mq.edu.au smtp.mailfrom=jonmsterling.com; dmarc=bestguesspass action=none header.from=jonmsterling.com; dkim=fail (signature did not verify) header.d=jonmsterling.com; dkim=fail (signature did not verify) header.d=messagingengine.com; arc=pass (0 oda=0 ltdi=0 93) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=groups.office.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=N57HVHanFYm3XXyOgKVJUJQsvf3HXNMz6w3OvJYgtic=; b=lMm2o7Rgj91S/QP+UdfUoX2hxFsN+tq1V+McQgHkwhU6fsF9DzijZXF4waxDEdFBifghK9Sr0UID3jtray5od0UHM6iNrEH9fJulsXCZ2QrSpexSoy6y0WysJqdy96bcPvVp5SMGyRv9aUkCYMRKDHxT51S2DbiDxZ8rFPOYKDP/wOelb2i/cZo87b8i7Y5FC2vNzuWd1BSweMvy9t1CzPKCch1EstuzRehphJqmxD1KwV+elBwzRqPy9AYjC8AWMag1BS6fjJG4Y5Oqkb3U29wvSZp3q8NbqonrGa7Qu4EpqnECAl2HJqUqvPDudNsEsEEBzaEllvfacUMt5huayA== Received: from SmtpServer.Submit by SY4PR01MB6139 with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.20.7202.32; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:16:46 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=3; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=pass; b=Z4YQ8e37NsVVudnRXfCk0UQDWX6BdrpnWLrJmxFgYx5aHgM8E6nOWPOFB894fM9dpnf8zsgMtKuM0pAIhBOVubxTd48jYzDwMwvghLjJXY8igNtNJ8Rzr8GjgNc/5ZPRn4nd5Cjpc4I70ka5SL4v0IK2iAP7wm7rYoUDT/yyWINI3cKQDTBCUXQgDVfZ5ReCwGVdxCiDs40X4sAA9jdT8HTvCe+zizePdsHfNSNZz2JURDbLRPIjR5Kbi8yh6hdZb6cKucxSak4iHcgXdOCOgsK3ff1eNrYSF7gQP5XsVAgA62f4/XyuSVVsdhKmg1Qzm3aGAI+GYdbmNtCRcUFjPw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=3; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=N57HVHanFYm3XXyOgKVJUJQsvf3HXNMz6w3OvJYgtic=; b=IZFM1FmdjUJG+5E0A1jUKzpSrAcijT4d6kBrg7EoGPGGme9u2aztpqavET47QvulOQcsF2S0ofbcliK9F9g6abqzIzkdgLhcf5Q41uqMYjxXSs8bl3HL3dC4DsiEeus1xrX3oYYP67J+FnzTAkul2k7fOB7mvhHjMbrj2BD6MJoO4oV1BR2Alo1Ua2yLZRwH0+1ZFg6xVuoM+fycZM8ObjnlrF8aEwOUHCBzrYkbq9LViExH10PyI1+eWhWXNQUvHlm1khVuoohuifNYzzU6Fuzo6LabfWJ/MUH0F0b8ULVtjq6bXSLBsaE3C1AN1JnU+S78w07S15CUWWD2gG0qnw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=3; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass (sender ip is 66.111.4.28) smtp.rcpttodomain=mq.edu.au smtp.mailfrom=jonmsterling.com; dmarc=bestguesspass action=none header.from=jonmsterling.com; dkim=fail (signature did not verify) header.d=jonmsterling.com; dkim=fail (signature did not verify) header.d=messagingengine.com; arc=pass (0 oda=0 ltdi=0 93) Received: from ME3PR01MB6982.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:220:163::6) by SY4PR01MB6139.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:10d::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7202.32; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:16:40 +0000 Received: from ME3PR01MB7079.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:220:16c::8) by ME3PR01MB6982.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:220:163::6) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7202.27; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:16:36 +0000 Received: from ME3PR01MB7079.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::392d:d8bc:90f0:d07]) by ME3PR01MB7079.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::392d:d8bc:90f0:d07%5]) with mapi id 15.20.7202.031; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:16:36 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=pass; b=eD9Z8uTwvnFsdXeveKO8wSLTWV9ZXbOhu6tOJHtd4XsZO/mP0bzUksukq5GHXmUdwNKbeSmHPRUhIR6dt9iCpvj3wqecJ4GO3VeRvux0Ud4VZosItHQhu1YHaPInJIoiBoSJlDnJh26syZ1MInKH/E2xoD3mAoc0cAaa08//V9Ai7O3xpzQ8h71tax3BDy8i5K+FJxleX8EDML0Q3m/Se/GCoeJsJTapNI4ENJAqZCmjau7R73SAdLh64INCcEx0hFkQV2jbq3/P/vEYGjuPV1hmQex+smaAXRwo4v6KXdNV2S3tWX/S6uSnUQTcbr3kRCNNP0V5qDzNnBJVn3bvTw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=N57HVHanFYm3XXyOgKVJUJQsvf3HXNMz6w3OvJYgtic=; b=lb5KcpnGXvmLWBmABYS3kffYiIpdQrbrmNEMaf2Iae+7Xn/0n19yrBj+JLbtuk8Wm9hLx8SPunGks7aHTSysiTbHk2p8khy7ZUpZZTjudnFpZDyMnbI6tI87YR4rabzEFDFLftDgesLTUxfTzyCMANOVTpgKlimljkVyCa3iuPjM/PwHDW68rrf3XXqWZ/nXStTX45WZCZVNrOjTRnFXBLdfcF5MrIJf+3SKda7MeTCeWeJCaHDCczKhVgLoTA2SwuplLJNaKPkE8rP/wQKJxpMnygPPSqBqcCufuw/jhqjI5TMA1HWq8bXBl8dmzB51VUoz6agfDW53MMn3jZ240Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass (sender ip is 66.111.4.28) smtp.rcpttodomain=mq.edu.au smtp.mailfrom=jonmsterling.com; dmarc=bestguesspass action=none header.from=jonmsterling.com; dkim=fail (signature did not verify) header.d=jonmsterling.com; dkim=fail (signature did not verify) header.d=messagingengine.com; arc=pass (0 oda=0 ltdi=0 93) Received: from SY5P282CA0135.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10c6:10:209::6) by ME2PR01MB5473.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:220:d4::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7202.32; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:15:35 +0000 Received: from SY4AUS01FT005.eop-AUS01.prod.protection.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:209:cafe::50) by SY5P282CA0135.outlook.office365.com (2603:10c6:10:209::6) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7202.32 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:15:35 +0000 Authentication-Results: spf=pass (sender IP is 66.111.4.28) smtp.mailfrom=jonmsterling.com; dkim=fail (signature did not verify) header.d=jonmsterling.com;dmarc=bestguesspass action=none header.from=jonmsterling.com; Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of jonmsterling.com designates 66.111.4.28 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=66.111.4.28; helo=out4-smtp.messagingengine.com; pr=C Received: from au-smtp-inbound-delivery-1.mimecast.com (103.96.20.101) by SY4AUS01FT005.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.114.156.159) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7181.37 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:15:34 +0000 ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dkim.mimecast.com; s=201903; t=1705914934; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=N57HVHanFYm3XXyOgKVJUJQsvf3HXNMz6w3OvJYgtic=; b=GjUtebw6ji3Usxa/UPdRWDJmM71bF/RKIoYJQ8kzkfd6sUHXwc8RIbbpb278Z8wNrNQGq5 aPkT5xW7R1mOoXNT3ov5xFMij3kl7hzP9D58K4JJ8xSoTPFhsTCbsHMXDYgBO6yKo1HTSj ilyWlTHQ4OJ318924a0xbyxlSBFaBqn4yM3aV6arQj3ekl2hpy1T/BJoTC+fkC1MxNguZh 2jMHjSmOCdimmhJ/5MbiojbanZPQW4Rt4kkroLyy8vDSP4OA9Bj7yFDj7IpCgZJJrarCla MnKPvykQ3T0Yhx/g4GjmU+DxHZ0Ygb8OvCaA/3AMklow0kxTZhSN/QX4nm1ZAw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=201903; d=dkim.mimecast.com; t=1705914934; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=NqN5eRSbegZaB5eq+PHz3hsFD96fu6J5FMdBBbKjJIuHx2f2cIi6IAvQ34lkWjnIUmmt4P lCI5WE05NaSQByX118sjpFeTBsjoRL5pv1KbxNqIFPV6xzzbTlOC0IaSa6pf5sqkOtPiA1 uFZ9rO7QCwxoYk93M4kopN1dmwM/jsVVt6q7TRrNkK7hoZVRwT41qvqHHgxmHie7fek6Li jZcpAKzHNrt3pAUUTw7/m55C19G6JpPAWuDZgaYBgyXDVRsW4mIHCzLv0/41O4IKWceq1x bjVfFpgqYpuz+EXoDkCNzhZxkl/Fcj82UnDPEV/60H2NJDXz0x3OHm28YaizIw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; relay.mimecast.com; dkim=pass header.d=jonmsterling.com header.s=fm1 header.b=DVN9FyqB; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b="Q pynVRp"; dmarc=none; spf=pass (relay.mimecast.com: domain of jon@jonmsterling.com designates 66.111.4.28 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jon@jonmsterling.com Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id au-mta-105-i8cm34A4NiCSgfmtSQt18g-1; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 20:15:14 +1100 X-MC-Unique: i8cm34A4NiCSgfmtSQt18g-1 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 275915C0179; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 04:15:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap51 ([10.202.2.101]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 22 Jan 2024 04:15:11 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= jonmsterling.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to; s=fm1; t=1705914911; x=1706001311; bh=DnaBizeaNKtD0rAyGGU7j Pf6QzWXuM70RxParWBS4ZQ=; b=DVN9FyqBQoc1pC68IY3XnZGgHRanfrzIK2EVp a1Q6vjvKdZP0tZjJPnChMRUbG8XZ46Aja0wG9WO6do0WrJsVT8vIv9Z/VrHri8m7 6nqAHHDCUJ/C24pAVoBlZ6HQ0bzRvRCxUb/O4ILxYYYEsA8WEmdSu3nEFEImiiPi MGM5sqpoXUnqvvUL54YeyNu8ywcnOgH+wDNyTdvcoFrbE5raronCucTE6fOPAq3p vGedoSsZLAURcKcv5UybUsTeiVAz2dvLVqVqK97sg2lnV1MrXGXYXoSJVz8qx+qm 6Vw7PlsEnEGUEzPsHKU3gAYArOockUL4TTsX+aYuywR82Ep4Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1705914911; x= 1706001311; bh=DnaBizeaNKtD0rAyGGU7jPf6QzWXuM70RxParWBS4ZQ=; b=Q pynVRpusB+1FjAOe9wrWSAmtIfp28t6FFu0w2/QiLnGHgVHswLqKULJVHfc3LQvf x+IejZdcA7oB454WoPn3z8yvW1t6em/Ht8WynuieYyjodsf4UfNLjR/LbAESfnf4 +LKCDUyPDeAWHYO5UCt0T9f5dFIAv8TozK/L3GnKjli5nJYpG/VCTNqjJoN5YNkw FlgQ7bfbtJLq3/jLYsHvOp3YZSrQ5W2MaB4wj1y5Jzo8vb1JciXBOc9VdrTptWUo zdrl7E+Ztq27EMPETd7jK910tLrZck6VuWmkDVvlrCsrAFG+v/+CTgvf5OkhMUoe mpWJp9XHGPlt/cfvOHACQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrvdekiedgtdduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvfevufgtgfesthhqredtreerjeenucfhrhhomhepfdfl ohhnucfuthgvrhhlihhnghdfuceojhhonhesjhhonhhmshhtvghrlhhinhhgrdgtohhmqe enucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedttdevfeehhffhtdetfedthfefudehieeifefgvdekjeej ffehteehhfegieefleenucffohhmrghinhepfigvrdhtlhdpmhhimhgvtggrshhtrdgtoh hmpdhjohhnmhhsthgvrhhlihhnghdrtghomhdprghrgihivhdrohhrghdpohhffhhitggv feeihedrtghomhdprghkrgdrmhhsnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrg hmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhonhesjhhonhhmshhtvghrlhhinhhgrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: if544409e:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 966E3B6008D; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 04:15:10 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-1374-gc37f3abe3d-fm-20240102.001-gc37f3abe MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4be0078d-c2f8-44a6-b38c-4934dd601ad9@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 09:14:49 +0000 From: "Jon Sterling" To: "Vaughan Pratt" , "Francis Borceux" CC: "categories@mq.edu.au" Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_B=C3=A9nabou?= Authentication-Results-Original: relay.mimecast.com; dkim=pass header.d=jonmsterling.com header.s=fm1 header.b=DVN9FyqB; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b="Q pynVRp"; dmarc=none; spf=pass (relay.mimecast.com: domain of jon@jonmsterling.com designates 66.111.4.28 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jon@jonmsterling.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Impersonation-Protect: Policy=MQ - Tag Header Only on Default Settings;Similar Internal Domain=false;Similar Monitored External Domain=false;Custom External Domain=false;Mimecast External Domain=false;Newly Observed Domain=false;Internal User Name=false;Custom Display Name List=false;Reply-to Address Mismatch=false;Targeted Threat Dictionary=false;Mimecast Threat Dictionary=false;Custom Threat Dictionary=false Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MCBoundary=_12401222015280631" X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-EOPTenantAttributedMessage: 82c514c1-a717-4087-be06-d40d2070ad52:0 X-MS-Exchange-SkipListedInternetSender: ip=[66.111.4.28];domain=out4-smtp.messagingengine.com X-MS-Exchange-ExternalOriginalInternetSender: ip=[66.111.4.28];domain=out4-smtp.messagingengine.com X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SY4AUS01FT005:EE_|ME2PR01MB5473:EE_|ME3PR01MB6982:EE_|SY4PR01MB6139:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: ab00de70-2aac-449c-4d09-08dc1b2ab0da X-Moderation-Data: 1/22/2024 9:16:35 AM X-LD-Processed: 82c514c1-a717-4087-be06-d40d2070ad52,ExtAddr,ExtAddr X-MS-Exchange-AtpMessageProperties: SA X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:103.96.20.101;CTRY:US;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:out4-smtp.messagingengine.com;PTR:out4-smtp.messagingengine.com;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230031)(4636009)(396003)(39860400002)(136003)(376002)(346002)(451199024)(8000799017)(48200799006)(1800799012)(82310400011)(64100799003)(40470700004)(26005)(66574015)(6666004)(6266002)(336012)(45080400002)(53546011)(33964004)(9686003)(35950700001)(41300700001)(7406005)(83380400001)(7366002)(32850700003)(7276002)(32650700002)(5660300002)(76576003)(89122003)(7416002)(2906002)(30864003)(7336002)(156005)(786003)(8936002)(4326008)(316002)(88732003)(110136005)(296002)(70586007)(68406010)(42186006)(966005)(498600001)(224303003)(31696002)(7636003)(86362001)(166002)(82740400003)(7596003)(40460700003)(40480700001)(31686004)(40310500001)(40720500001)(41080700001)(32420700272);DIR:OUT;SFP:1501; X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ab00de70-2aac-449c-4d09-08dc1b2ab0da X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 82c514c1-a717-4087-be06-d40d2070ad52 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SY4AUS01FT005.eop-AUS01.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2024 09:16:36.8543 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: z6X7F6Fbzl7X14nJVVVP2m/xEkbUKm7AAUmz9ab9omH35vwkoEnoIdVWDg6w92KBVGBtTanlss45DKaK/r67aK+xh7yoKfGMbeM9L2CvTpmDS91sno2h/aacUjipIRrA8Zw5jkHRVfbJ39NxThkQ1fcT89aGdt/d0GMRn+0lQc+BVshMCbot9NyEft7ptscg X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SY4PR01MB6139 X-MS-Exchange-UnifiedGroup-DisplayName: Categories mailing list X-MS-Exchange-UnifiedGroup-Address: categories@mq.edu.au X-MS-Exchange-UnifiedGroup-MailboxGuid: 9c2f954e-92a7-451b-b723-a07075d7adb5 X-MS-Exchange-UnifiedGroup-CustomizedMessage: RedeemedBusinessGuests X-MS-Exchange-Parent-Message-Id: <4be0078d-c2f8-44a6-b38c-4934dd601ad9@app.fastmail.com> Auto-Submitted: auto-generated X-MS-Exchange-Generated-Message-Source: Throttled Fork Delivery Agent X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?VitHY0pHNnpXSTI1QWRzY1dNY2cyWjYyc2tZdlpiUUdxNmdwVWhqbTk5UUF6?= =?utf-8?B?dDU1SXV1dGtlLzZCZTVVSFZKMEp2SmNmSGhqSXJRQ2FQZ1JvK2FzdkVVRWln?= =?utf-8?B?M2Q3ZVpuZllaUE1HdWQ0ZmZxV3NjUW9xbEhHQzFzRVlFZlpnc25na1JUTEdh?= =?utf-8?B?a0JNU2RBRU84NFk1ck9yL09CQ0RRQVFmVjFTRkNOdmpFYmE2WUMrQkE0QXZH?= =?utf-8?B?Ynk0bkovbStsZ3pwY0s3d3dsemFTai9vUjhSTlluRXVjZmVlQXFVa2lkQ0FN?= =?utf-8?B?ZiszanNmRWc4dUxRQkFKMVZ0ZXpIb1ZtZW45RXNYM3YyMldtRk9Nd1VkU0Rn?= =?utf-8?B?dmxKUG1qR1U4R3ZFcE9JZ1VEd2dZd0NraVJ2cnR3eVc5QmRCc3BYSUl4S3Zh?= =?utf-8?B?SUdoSTBqM1dwWVlGWEpsd0VuMlQxYi84MUdRNGNKeS9NQWhyUXZ6TXJ4a0l4?= =?utf-8?B?YldkN2tnK2RZTXJNVzZCVmRtcVZodVArMkk3clRGUTlsekhwaWJVb0NNbGt2?= =?utf-8?B?N0FiQlN2ZWVHbXFPd2tRVmM3ZXFMWHNPZDFCY3UzS3RadkpLbmdSQktqU3BE?= =?utf-8?B?VWpCWHVSS3pwMG8wa2xPanowVk84UlNldFlFd2R5TGU1SnE2TnVKUE1PSEpH?= =?utf-8?B?WGx4eGg2Q29vcmpEa015ZEJnaXg1SGlON2RoTndpOVdQMmEwSGFjaVZYYmdN?= =?utf-8?B?ZWNXMTRjSTI4UVdld3hoVUtYLzJzbnhyNmVZaFI4Vjk1OVU5Q01PRWNTb094?= =?utf-8?B?ejRINUVOU3ltQWl2RnlheDZtdEFRaEh5VDdJbnpmYnMzMHJ2cGxWOFNYaXJz?= =?utf-8?B?TGpxaGsrYjcvSzljSm0xNm15S3YxZng5S0JPZXFUV095a1lBdEI0ZWJlUzE2?= =?utf-8?B?YkYyczcwSThLMHd2NmgrbE45dXNRRlE2NEl3WEZiQlUxSjhibi9hanI3SmEv?= =?utf-8?B?UU11MkplSkFGd0RzU1NJYnRxVWtrazB3bDBzUjFLZEtNK2w5YVZGYk1ROGlG?= =?utf-8?B?Ri9RaGpINUM4RFJCeXRtZi81YmZCV1BEWDdtYUF6V0U2MW9TOTdSS3J4bTVh?= =?utf-8?B?MDJIVkRoVVM1VVU4QlZ1TGIzYlNsVXlCK2RDcHJGQ0FTaitXU084MUNNdDRp?= =?utf-8?B?RkFrRHp5dTRYL0hhYmNIZkNzdWRMalZHNi9ZNEkwcWloNGRtbmlvV2h2dm5r?= =?utf-8?B?TmczNkpsNGVwekVFYkRFRTdZeTdLRVJQWkprRFZ4NGVEcEFQenAyZ3FsR1Rn?= =?utf-8?B?RlRqZWg3ZHBJU3p2M2pVOXIvU0g5L2x3VmtYbHVGOTBqMmtDR1cxNWF6SUZ5?= =?utf-8?B?VURZdTc4NzBvc3NxdERMNzN3YkdZZDVvVUVKQXQzUk1TZmc1ZnBQM1l0UzhJ?= =?utf-8?B?TndvWTZlV3JpOHRQdXVQc0w3UURrN21BWHdyMlZEMktmeVR4V2FTVW1qV0Mw?= =?utf-8?B?bkpIYzM3aGN6cWdwUmFud2NyakFqcW1IRWc3bVhGLzN4N1VxVGYvR2x5dWQz?= =?utf-8?B?VkY3YUdKYWFSQnIzeGtZUHRxU2dUY0NZZWJ0SXBPTzlYYmlhYkhJdysvaldy?= =?utf-8?B?NTU5N2hKWEFjc2R1V1prWTY5WmRzdXlMSDcvam8vUzdjekRFV1l3bkdSZHBC?= =?utf-8?B?NklyZDBqNmJ2WUFJTXdqZ3JqS3dmQnJhWVBOQWFGYWxHelp2RGtwd2JmMDda?= =?utf-8?B?UUoyZkpOZlVFRUpnQkFwOElYZWZocVp4U1VxSkJ4VEdqdlA2cW1nQ1FIckpy?= =?utf-8?B?cXRCa1ExdWRCTzZGUWJzeXEvQUpaekdkZURsYkhaVzZtYm11dStIaDBiRFBT?= =?utf-8?B?bWxqWSttVjVXSGZLNVZ2cHM2RCt0YjliV1Qxd0FISWE2SHpneElDZk5yQmMx?= =?utf-8?B?YlRmZjFiSUhzMTYxMFA2czc5WXREeHhwQmlwV0NHeGMzZjJ3ZFhCSEpTTCtL?= =?utf-8?Q?JGOmP6+H3mPLcOzBfrKPvi4BI5EQFZUn?= X-OriginatorOrg: mq.edu.au --MCBoundary=_12401222015280631 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Vaughan, On Mon, Jan 22, 2024, at 7:31 AM, Vaughan Pratt wrote: > Dear Francis, > > I greatly appreciate your input to the categories list regarding the=20 > contributions of Jean B=C3=A9nabou from half a century ago. I especially= =20 > appreciated your "I downloaded a copy of these old texts via=20 > =E2=80=9CWeTransfer=E2=80=9D and they will remain available during one we= ek via the=20 > link https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/t0L3CD1vRkCV66pGuW4yUv?domain=3Dwe= .tl=20 > = ." > > I did so and now have them in four folders. However they are all in=20 > French, whereas your three excellent volumes are in English. > > Is anyone volunteering to translate B=C3=A9nabou's texts into English? At one time I was working on a translation of B=C3=A9nabou's lectures on to= poi, but I ran out of time. I might resume at some point, but perhaps someo= ne with a better command of the subtleties French language would do a bette= r job. > > And on the matter of decidability, speaking as a complexiy theorist, is= =20 > there a short summary of the essential points? I wonder if Francis meant to type 'definability' rather than decidability. = Definability is indeed one of B=C3=A9nabou's most important and underrated = ideas, which generalises certain notions of definability from logic and set= theory. I have written some brief exposition on the topic here: https://pr= otect-au.mimecast.com/s/MBluCE8wlRCDAAyXcwjUV9?domain=3Djonmsterling.com bu= t I do recommend Volume 2 of Francis' handbook for a more thorough account. One thing I learned from Thomas Streicher's paper on universes in toposes i= s that definability is related to descent =E2=80=94 for instance, if you re= strict the codomain fibration to a stable class of maps, you get a full sub= fibration, and definability in the sense of B=C3=A9nabou is the gap between= this subfibration and its stack completion. There is a lot of potential fo= r this idea contributing to future works in category theory; for example, M= ike Shulman has extended B=C3=A9nabou's definability from "classes" of thin= gs in a fibration (i.e. properties) to a notion of definability that makes = sense for structures; Andrew Swan has given a very interesting and thorough= investigation of this generalised definability and its practical implicati= ons here: https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/yeENCGv0Z6fMyynXFptjUl?domain= =3Darxiv.org. All the best, Jon > > Vaughan Pratt > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 1:34=E2=80=AFPM Francis Borceux=20 > wrote: >> __ __ >> I had the privilege to have regular and often close contacts with Jean B= =C3=A9nabou during more than 50 years ; I learned much from him.____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> It is a matter of fact that Jean did like very much lecturing, and he wa= s doing that marvelously well =E2=80=A6 but he was quite reluctant to =C2= =AB freeze =C2=BB a topic by writing it down.____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> Early in the seventies, Jean gave several series of lectures at the Univ= ersity of Louvain: on monads (called =E2=80=9Ctriples=E2=80=9D in those day= s), multiplicative categories, distributors and toposes. Notes on these lec= tures were written down by some of the auditors and Jean accepted to have t= hem published in the preprints of the mathematics department. I downloaded = a copy of these old texts via =E2=80=9CWeTransfer=E2=80=9D and they will re= main available during one week via the link https://protect-au.mimecast.com= /s/t0L3CD1vRkCV66pGuW4yUv?domain=3Dwe.tl .____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> Some years later, Jean also gave a series of lectures on fibred categori= es in Louvain-la-Neuve. As already mentioned by others, Jean-Roger Roisin w= rote from these lectures a beautiful set of notes. These notes were never p= ublished because Jean, through the years, kept considering that he could st= ill improve and complete his results before their publication.____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> When I wrote the three volumes of my =E2=80=9CHandbook of categorical al= gebra=E2=80=9D, I wanted of course to include a chapter on fibred or indexe= d categories: I chose fibred categories (Chapter 8 of Volume 2). Before sen= ding the chapter to the editor, I sent a copy of it to Jean, asking for his= comments, but making clear that I was not at all asking permission to publ= ish this chapter, and that I would be the only one (with the referees) to d= ecide of the final form of the text and take the responsibility of it. I de= finitely wanted to avoid a new endless story, in the vein of what was happe= ning to the Jean-Roger notes.____ >>=20 >> __ __ >>=20 >> I remember the upset answer that Jean gave me; he was focusing on three = points.____ >>=20 >> 1. I do not appreciate that you include a chapter containing many resul= ts of mine before I myself publish them.____ >> 2. At least, it is a relief to notice that your text reflects faithfull= y my own views on this topic.____ >> 3. Thank you for putting emphasize on the notion of decidability, whose= importance does not seem to have been recognized by the categorical commun= ity.____ >> I am thus confident that this chapter reflects quite faithfully several = ideas of Jean, at the period where my book was written.____ >> __ __ >> Francis____ >> __ __ >> Francis Borceux____ >> 6 rue Fran=C3=A7ois____ >> 1490 Court-Saint-Etienne____ >> Belgique____ >> +32478390328 (portable)____ >> +3210614205 (fixe)____ >> francis.borceux@uclouvain.be____ >> __ __ >> =20 >> =20 >> You're receiving this message because you're a member of the Categories = mailing list group from Macquarie University. To take part in this conversa= tion, reply all to this message.=20 >> =20 >> View group files | Leave group | L= earn more about Microsoft 365 Groups =20 >> =20 >=20 >=20 > You're receiving this message because you're a member of the Categories= =20 > mailing list group from Macquarie University. To take part in this=20 > conversation, reply all to this message.=20 >=20 > View group files=20 > =20 > | Leave group=20 > =20 > | Learn more about Microsoft 365 Groups --MCBoundary=_12401222015280631 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear Vaughan,

On Mon, Jan 22, 2024, at 7:31 AM, Vaughan Pratt wrote:
> Dear Francis,
>
> I greatly appreciate your input to the categories list regarding the <= BR> > contributions of Jean Bénabou from half a century ago. I espec= ially
> appreciated your "I downloaded a copy of these old texts via
> =E2=80=9CWeTransfer=E2=80=9D and they will remain available during one= week via the
> link https://we.tl/t-AwGwZkYcCq
> <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/6FM2CQnM1WfWDmrkixnsWM?= domain=3Dwe.tl>."
>
> I did so and now have them in four folders. However they are all in <= BR> > French, whereas your three excellent volumes are in English.
>
> Is anyone volunteering to translate Bénabou's texts into Englis= h?

At one time I was working on a translation of Bénabou's lectures on = topoi, but I ran out of time. I might resume at some point, but perhaps som= eone with a better command of the subtleties French language would do a bet= ter job.

>
> And on the matter of decidability, speaking as a complexiy theorist, i= s
> there a short summary of the essential points?

I wonder if Francis meant to type 'definability' rather than decidability. = Definability is indeed one of Bénabou's most important and underrate= d ideas, which generalises certain notions of definability from logic and s= et theory. I have written some brief exposition on the topic here: http://www.jonmsterling.com/frct-002L.xml; but I do recomm= end Volume 2 of Francis' handbook for a more thorough account.

One thing I learned from Thomas Streicher's paper on universes in toposes i= s that definability is related to descent =E2=80=94 for instance, if you re= strict the codomain fibration to a stable class of maps, you get a full sub= fibration, and definability in the sense of Bénabou is the gap betwe= en this subfibration and its stack completion. There is a lot of potential = for this idea contributing to future works in category theory; for example,= Mike Shulman has extended Bénabou's definability from "classes= " of things in a fibration (i.e. properties) to a notion of definabili= ty that makes sense for structures; Andrew Swan has given a very interestin= g and thorough investigation of this generalised definability and its pract= ical implications here: https://arxiv.org/abs/2206.13643.<= BR>
All the best,
Jon


>
> Vaughan Pratt
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 1:34=E2=80=AFPM Francis Borceux
> <francis.borceux@uclouvain.be> wrote:
>> __ __
>> I had the privilege to have regular and often close contacts with = Jean Bénabou during more than 50 years ; I learned much from him.___= _
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> It is a matter of fact that Jean did like very much lecturing, and= he was doing that marvelously well =E2=80=A6 but he was quite reluctant to= « freeze » a topic by writing it down.____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Early in the seventies, Jean gave several series of lectures at th= e University of Louvain: on monads (called =E2=80=9Ctriples=E2=80=9D in tho= se days), multiplicative categories, distributors and toposes. Notes on the= se lectures were written down by some of the auditors and Jean accepted to = have them published in the preprints of the mathematics department. I downl= oaded a copy of these old texts via =E2=80=9CWeTransfer=E2=80=9D and they w= ill remain available during one week via the link https://we.tl/t-= AwGwZkYcCq <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/6FM2CQnM1WfWD= mrkixnsWM?domain=3Dwe.tl>.____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Some years later, Jean also gave a series of lectures on fibred ca= tegories in Louvain-la-Neuve. As already mentioned by others, Jean-Roger Ro= isin wrote from these lectures a beautiful set of notes. These notes were n= ever published because Jean, through the years, kept considering that he co= uld still improve and complete his results before their publication.____ >>
>> __ __
>>
>> When I wrote the three volumes of my =E2=80=9CHandbook of categori= cal algebra=E2=80=9D, I wanted of course to include a chapter on fibred or = indexed categories: I chose fibred categories (Chapter 8 of Volume 2). Befo= re sending the chapter to the editor, I sent a copy of it to Jean, asking f= or his comments, but making clear that I was not at all asking permission t= o publish this chapter, and that I would be the only one (with the referees= ) to decide of the final form of the text and take the responsibility of it= . I definitely wanted to avoid a new endless story, in the vein of what was= happening to the Jean-Roger notes.____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> I remember the upset answer that Jean gave me; he was focusing on = three points.____
>>
>> 1. I do not appreciate that you include a chapter containing many= results of mine before I myself publish them.____
>> 2. At least, it is a relief to notice that your text reflects fai= thfully my own views on this topic.____
>> 3. Thank you for putting emphasize on the notion of decidability,= whose importance does not seem to have been recognized by the categorical = community.____
>> I am thus confident that this chapter reflects quite faithfully se= veral ideas of Jean, at the period where my book was written.____
>> __ __
>> Francis____
>> __ __
>> Francis Borceux____
>> 6 rue François____
>> 1490 Court-Saint-Etienne____
>> Belgique____
>> +32478390328 (portable)____
>> +3210614205 (fixe)____
>> francis.borceux@uclouvain.be____
>> __ __
>>
>>
>> You're receiving this message because you're a member of the Categ= ories mailing list group from Macquarie University. To take part in this co= nversation, reply all to this message.
>>
>> View group files <https://protect-au.m= imecast.com/s/K0WiCRONg6sLK8BvTNCqF1?domain=3Doutlook.office365.com>= | Leave group <https://protect-au.mimecast= .com/s/IGCiCVARmOHA419xiyH3u8?domain=3Doutlook.office365.com> | = Learn more about Microsoft 365 Groups <https://protect-au.mime= cast.com/s/5_nqCWLVn6iBpvG5TnY827?domain=3Daka.ms>
>>
>
>
> You're receiving this message because you're a member of the Categorie= s
> mailing list group from Macquarie University. To take part in this > conversation, reply all to this message.
>
> View group files
> <https://outlook.office365.com/owa/categor= ies@mq.edu.au/groupsubscription.ashx?source=3DEscalatedMessage&action= =3Dfiles&GuestId=3D3d33085c-21ea-4036-99e4-8fc96e8c25b8>
> | Leave group
> <https://outlook.office365.com/owa/categor= ies@mq.edu.au/groupsubscription.ashx?source=3DEscalatedMessage&action= =3Dleave&GuestId=3D3d33085c-21ea-4036-99e4-8fc96e8c25b8>
> | Learn more about Microsoft 365 Groups <https://aka.= ms/o365g>
--MCBoundary=_12401222015280631--