From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/3081 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marco Grandis Newsgroups: gmane.science.mathematics.categories Subject: Re: Undirected graphs Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:07:03 +0100 Message-ID: <95202C2D-742C-4D18-8863-23AD165EB912@dima.unige.it> References: <20060308150720.9D5D07375B@chase.mathstat.dal.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1241019084 7165 80.91.229.2 (29 Apr 2009 15:31:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:31:24 +0000 (UTC) To: categories@mta.ca Original-X-From: rrosebru@mta.ca Fri Mar 10 05:51:04 2006 -0400 Return-path: Envelope-to: categories-list@mta.ca Delivery-date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:51:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Majordom by mailserv.mta.ca with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FHeEi-0001px-1B for categories-list@mta.ca; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:48:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20060308150720.9D5D07375B@chase.mathstat.dal.ca> Original-Sender: cat-dist@mta.ca Precedence: bulk X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 Original-Lines: 48 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.science.mathematics.categories:3081 Archived-At: Dear Bob, Involutive graphs are what you are saying, of course. If I had to choose, I would take this as my favoured notion of "undirected graph", because it is a presheaf topos on a very simple site. A graph theorist would probably say that an "undirected graph" is what you are hinting at, which amounts to taking the involutive graphs where all loops are fixed by the involution (or the ones where no loop is fixed, except the trivial ones?). Then, he might want to forget about trivial loops, and allow vertices with no loops. Being in a category list, another reason of "preferring" the first notion might be: - a category has an underlying graph, - an involutive category has an underlying involutive graph, - involutive categories where all endomorphisms are fixed by the involution are rather unnatural; not to mention the ones where no endomorphism is fixed except the identities. Of course, there might be reasons in favour of the other choices, or of considering different choices at a time. Life is complicated and mathematics too. Even working in category theory, I think we should avoid being too "categorical"... Best regards Marco On 8 Mar 2006, at 16:07, cat-dist@mta.ca wrote: > I've been following the recent posts on undirected graphs > with interest. But I have a question. I think it's being said > that undirected graphs are the same as directed graphs with > involution. (Presheaves on the full subcategory of SET determined > by 1 and 2, or just 2.) Which is nice but what about loops? > The involution might fix a loop or not. So wouldn't we be > getting undirected graphs with two kinds of loops, whole loops > and semiloops? What am I missing? > > Bob > > >