From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/2066 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: S.J.Vickers@open.ac.uk Newsgroups: gmane.science.mathematics.categories Subject: Re: language and thinking Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:05:48 -0000 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1241018380 2279 80.91.229.2 (29 Apr 2009 15:19:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:19:40 +0000 (UTC) To: categories@mta.ca Original-X-From: rrosebru@mta.ca Fri Dec 21 09:27:02 2001 -0400 Return-path: Envelope-to: categories-list@mta.ca Delivery-date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:27:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Majordom by mailserv.mta.ca with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16HPf1-0006CO-00 for categories-list@mta.ca; Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:24:27 -0400 X-Received: from zent.mta.ca ([138.73.101.4]) by mailserv.mta.ca with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16HMZ3-0002Dn-00 for cat-dist@mta.ca; Fri, 21 Dec 2001 06:06:05 -0400 X-Received: FROM mercury.open.ac.uk BY zent.mta.ca ; Fri Dec 21 06:03:26 2001 -0400 X-Received: from moray.open.ac.uk by mercury.open.ac.uk via SMTP Local (Mailer 3.1) with ESMTP; Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:05:50 +0000 X-Received: by moray.open.ac.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:05:48 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Original-Sender: cat-dist@mta.ca Precedence: bulk X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 Original-Lines: 34 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.science.mathematics.categories:2066 Archived-At: > This brings up the question: Can concepts be differentiated from language? Two quite different examples: first, a very practical one. This is of vital importance in teaching computing. Programming languages come and go, and to be reasonably future-proof a programming course must go beyond merely "teaching a programming language" and bring out concepts. Some evidence that concepts can be differentiated from language is seen in the graphical Integrated Development Environments (IDEs) for developing object oriented programs. For instance, if you compare those for Java with those for C++ you find that broadly similar diagrammatic metaphors (grab an object, place it somewhere, link it to other objects to handle certain events, etc.) get implemented in rather different ways in different languages. This sounds very like Charles's replacement of talking in his head by pictorial concepts. Its effectiveness in IDEs is indisputable, and it seems to be because the language by itself in some way hobbles your thought processes (cf. Basic programming improved by knowing Pascal). A quite different example is that of foundations, how choice of logic affects what you can recognize as mathematics. But don't get me going on that. Merry Christmas, Steve Vickers.