From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_HIGH,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HTML_MESSAGE,HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE,URI_DOTEDU autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from AUS01-SY4-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sy4aus01on2126.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.107.126]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD8A23202 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 09:22:18 +0100 (CET) ARC-Seal: i=4; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=pass; b=aJAoM8DOKqnEO4//eU40ouVql6kgmBUg2NwWtgTOpIgXOBmMvGYyc2ZX+7fMIMfqUkeYEEzvc3jyFN0d72bXlxEG3YLSpqypJcly3Tinm8ouSNt+DtYmNLiQFxnE9ojW9kLy2GzgWrvzUUPratzlVdjJH5JNwe9RVcPMlPbqyLmYs7x5VwSCRO2hPEq4FuFlKUAYL5S6eIhiZF8WVQEBbrhUasQCztOSImHtqk3SNP8ftSxcn1Qv3PceCEgqZ9wFfoBg7TmnJdGz4aS7dQCirXFkUS35L1/HW7OlcYc/ldWBLjbu5vnTre45EgWcaBYeoum1+dM6kpXxjpROzB+0CQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=4; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=DuOxpovin4MMzaQ5ishJkL2c+tDn7SyeerB0udJDs1c=; b=Wj9L0umnpeyNrhFEem4jnS2+8dotjioM2vz819JWLPz4BsHVUBoeoRe6Bk3exjo7vg9QtJNdB0nSk8vFFXTK1ewWE7LydFVWSqtUByZ+UQJ/9yGWDnXUTn0nvab33/AK/x35pl8s/LDKqMyTJuBhbVtBp3Sfdmy5Jnh3rsh4gMhQU8+7d30m8I4AwxyvY5ggkjs4XlCPUZmI5GjTqZTsQFgeaWQ6uzdzTP7R9w4i6ubWufeYwiRI9SqdexMW54jLBUJIM5KMRQ/vSjVPkJLGTFnYQUWHT/j2GuAVko1/yy4CDkXiUW5qyFWeH/lm0JuLZAk0p3K3V1YRtEkiw2tTUw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=4; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass (sender ip is 209.85.219.176) smtp.rcpttodomain=mq.edu.au smtp.mailfrom=cs.stanford.edu; dmarc=pass (p=none sp=none pct=100) action=none header.from=cs.stanford.edu; dkim=none (message not signed); arc=pass (0 oda=0 ltdi=0 93) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=groups.office.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=DuOxpovin4MMzaQ5ishJkL2c+tDn7SyeerB0udJDs1c=; b=sTSlUei4Z7ONx3bkeJTmsdPScWftc7A3YAafYkjFuYfJBk5+jHN7BSR1ZVt8o/JW1hmPt6cMA8aErK/Il3r6PR1tQBLIQLYvoPhDQUY6RnwO02UMcoiM6XCxWHe/wiKLv+XMkmXkAkHu8aBUCHMI+CeuuYPWT0VxjwjDVJCyYPshUNa4JejqCpMHJpd3uz6MNkfFtGvy5/bkd37R3hMSyHrffdk/K+kW5QSo9gNHrQzsU/gfEFP1/U4e9lmACR4nbH2WSOzD84YWPxT2zfAZjEZzPFr4k6+j+Ye5ZhjPlO/xhn0Kj30KTVjMfiJka48y63/m/BgzG2VLh+3z1GGO4A== Received: from SmtpServer.Submit by ME3PR01MB5814 with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.20.7228.22; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:22:15 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=3; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=pass; b=iDHUBoRzjsM8X23y81ErK49tKJvmAs330JgDo1On4hBTQjbq7PuZLvFWIjcNIqBaWSiA5Ytm200frNrMJZduN6HO4mRX9lnC+9ZktRbA+7SBzHXxVYK/QnHBZpIfAOnOce735FJEpoVCmxsqiQUtlWV7wC+yD/MysQEHRu4h5C+nM0g86qWRPJZJIoDU2E0l52XNzFEnWDZHvE2NgZkEoikHwzrZqhREmyYu9KU2/kqSwqpdo+28ls5isf+m4mWPocXnUtNEQNLmQOhd0S/gDriN0UnoI8TTA+SMsl3HMvmoFsqzx25avnI6yCLWpkZbwDBL2YJujRhvka0jRRHk4g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=3; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=DuOxpovin4MMzaQ5ishJkL2c+tDn7SyeerB0udJDs1c=; b=WQ8WvkTXe1e34nN3GEg0Dr9BGEG0USLLzkRuDxIiYm1MISqZ/0MxmztqbrVzCgPzIsjdS6S833a7lvTmSZ4MDaGu5HT+E+MJC03ZjEAHJuorWZtxT9rpqixGgKGpQHa9f4dDZL8Czcsmn0MblHnuyO1FsWEfaZYbjeCm/IQQEa3DWKqvsb7DGrlQ7a66U9EDMWv/7NDKyYdMu0VUArcmDX1va6PgPf2HOZsO+X4jB2BA/W3E71O75j9Vfd27Y+ZAD5FBZJSU3+Ow132JG2rlb5tGyBWcf6xFJdvWW+HwuEWzVcEe8q8c6ZqJyq6sEaYg5au8IYOXSGRsirXjV/h1NQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=3; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass (sender ip is 209.85.219.176) smtp.rcpttodomain=mq.edu.au smtp.mailfrom=cs.stanford.edu; dmarc=pass (p=none sp=none pct=100) action=none header.from=cs.stanford.edu; dkim=none (message not signed); arc=pass (0 oda=0 ltdi=0 93) Received: from ME3PR01MB7304.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:220:131::10) by ME3PR01MB5814.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:220:e5::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7228.22; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:22:09 +0000 Received: from SY2PR01MB2986.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:1:22::21) by ME3PR01MB7304.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:220:131::10) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7228.22; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:22:06 +0000 Received: from SY2PR01MB2986.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9b83:a267:9175:e296]) by SY2PR01MB2986.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9b83:a267:9175:e296%4]) with mapi id 15.20.7202.035; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:22:05 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=pass; b=VJSJqtl6DUJ28mf6wI/71Saac0s1V/9hHuHW2a5hKx105ft0cqoolki2HRnITjBuSzQy5ewZaHTDJFP4GmYGqQuNz7OIdJVjM7y8po21P3pHlacF+pn1SfXch/v1MRA3qYhbTIydbaRgdV3smKGwUEAxoITgk1PVpViIHlM0FboVOzMAkjqxJZt7jRd3OlKYjGkl+0BtI/5b4ENpIjaak+q8176m7dT3rvDB/V96Vp6IjLCuAYG1pXAsOjO3I3SpDuuCblkGNGzvfUgL7ON+y9LXGe9Mb5PB4UWVlRUSN4ek1i2NKaW6Sdvl3axdL6Z7R+0mpBxemiEPf+uw+WLPMw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=DuOxpovin4MMzaQ5ishJkL2c+tDn7SyeerB0udJDs1c=; b=Gv1edg/eD7CFU031BsR7LSDYT6luMwO/9mkpLiLMhsp5afSO+X/GLKLkMoWaTXLJAYDaS57/+kQqUbbiislaH8YSXnm0HLH/Fyv2FyqMAjI2XPE35NTF9x6zb9EFYT1VRXFL8TvqTbYBj24sU2eD2H4vVlkVPPAEJ7aL1D5kAzHbRY0GMaUbvAAfZy2ML6hoHqVcFbWTeWY2B9k4hnUL9wuUhAV7L5CfEz1nALHo3RoiyU9KOWSq3iQfQSEzsVRCi/XIRQP2cmz0gt+jU0Pv+0vDljE0/MTpBWaQULvW5uSBNjHSDIeh6QstrKIdSVK0vtqxHw+VVDmJLzqvcK8QKw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass (sender ip is 209.85.219.176) smtp.rcpttodomain=mq.edu.au smtp.mailfrom=cs.stanford.edu; dmarc=pass (p=none sp=none pct=100) action=none header.from=cs.stanford.edu; dkim=none (message not signed); arc=pass (0 oda=0 ltdi=0 93) Received: from SYBPR01CA0205.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:16::25) by SYBPR01MB6400.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:100::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7228.22; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:09:29 +0000 Received: from SY4AUS01FT020.eop-AUS01.prod.protection.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:16:cafe::43) by SYBPR01CA0205.outlook.office365.com (2603:10c6:10:16::25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7228.22 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:09:29 +0000 Authentication-Results: spf=pass (sender IP is 209.85.219.176) smtp.mailfrom=cs.stanford.edu; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cs.stanford.edu; Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of cs.stanford.edu designates 209.85.219.176 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=209.85.219.176; helo=mail-yb1-f176.google.com; pr=C Received: from au-smtp-inbound-delivery-1.mimecast.com (103.96.20.101) by SY4AUS01FT020.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.114.156.99) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7228.19 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:09:28 +0000 ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dkim.mimecast.com; s=201903; t=1706083768; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=DuOxpovin4MMzaQ5ishJkL2c+tDn7SyeerB0udJDs1c=; b=HQVKZNqx9vUyNAArrAQm7UPB8oTPDQWH/+x82BDQxJSVI7J3wbAPlvHce0Dx2OyfgWefvU kqNyQoelmf1pvtDjMIcKMs+rVmlVNmMNFx3ty7mHic5+iRgQ8RisYRbN9FJ8xeMKCkMhkN BrPvQCsKENZ+m6XG4cvJ3baz0XLqNcze2f2g53QVlqhQE/Qkx+br+SXf5VoM5/oiLuwG68 wXwYvI9D13hSIEnOvm8IR6Zr373UaVf/JgCLwCn/3bTkj5HB56EMdtr/IT6cn24QcWhlbV 0QlgbNPtTYejjNkQgUAkklMeOL7jU1gZU7d3vrf43AVc6salNX10eNP9HHX3Vw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=201903; d=dkim.mimecast.com; t=1706083768; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Rmh7TnckhsCdfLOahALyAXdw9j8hZ5GfNh7RpUC6UVv274Kj08OFj6IcKUW6ucxbHUOS7z VQGYGHqD2TGBT4qsG9Jr3TsyP2AN+kxvULFYgYbZb3zqzL+JUqQbMIFLD1Eergxs/n6wsQ ElbH+l0+QR+wpJe4oIMttlaVzsDiY5cL5ZtZdqbI/8pY+wq5KVGP5WlCFbKs/ineKbBGCb B6fyaK2Y2xY4FqehU/Uwwxw4foziJrsCxS61OPYyXt+zFuipFzCC8tZHPaAYyrDrBocsvk +HU3iF74U164nFZwlQyIMwmNCEkhJMpls8yUJgbUJkgtxlvze3RV3AyOEmQ3Zw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; relay.mimecast.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=cs.stanford.edu; spf=pass (relay.mimecast.com: domain of pratt@cs.stanford.edu designates 209.85.219.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pratt@cs.stanford.edu Received: from mail-yb1-f176.google.com (mail-yb1-f176.google.com [209.85.219.176]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id au-mta-15-BmvAIagUOjezgLjlMNZGcA-1; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 19:09:24 +1100 X-MC-Unique: BmvAIagUOjezgLjlMNZGcA-1 Received: by mail-yb1-f176.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-db3fa47c2f7so4610458276.0 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 00:09:24 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706083762; x=1706688562; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=6ALc1nlwVva2kXFlcpIRtfVz+D+5uHWlncpM/nolgmM=; b=v1QCJa+ghcC9u5O7aaOOZBkPPbnwTf0K2yC5AuQrrZZEMLNFTMgxtqSlbvHWgHhwoW ciRLxM1NWr1RSLisAM0NoS6+PgH8EHmDhk55FwyyyzO/3U5JSiActt7UGzeTbGVXRn0r VHmBJ4Hcs72DCKxBPb3pV6LLs1Agz+UfsS3G8yda8zZOyMzUoBhsD8VyN0s15zF87TRB lkxeBgRYmXZRrI0tLihX7DwmcKXyP5zGpnQnpsdo31JbqJ+ebgxtecdaKi83n1oi5GOw penXFYDorjwZTrMSYiuDEKA7i1CefTJhrx+4RKFW672X7ttqYh0CebdB3Jj1YqdKIcJA 98Hg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxtoA7amtTyHIzv37shp6u+uBS1RPyIOwTeJidEuya0WUtIlrhP KLszqML6LxGodqDsbpjOPVZBFtka5MlKd7ptT1Yjxj6t78wAgp/MJMmy76UqV6xjinMHgm0giih 30NScejbV8E2xzfGnRa6XSaAvZKHERDu+16s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGUX3ClrS55m9YpQkw+FG3jcGjO80lV5vYy78b/4a2r9H54LKmR/M4BOrCAW16ZzaGvwYoiZ46TjSraora9ptw= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:783:0:b0:dc3:6a61:1cd9 with SMTP id b3-20020a5b0783000000b00dc36a611cd9mr293191ybq.73.1706083762010; Wed, 24 Jan 2024 00:09:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Vaughan Pratt Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 00:08:45 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sorry To: Wesley Phoa CC: Francis Borceux , categories@mq.edu.au Authentication-Results-Original: relay.mimecast.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=cs.stanford.edu; spf=pass (relay.mimecast.com: domain of pratt@cs.stanford.edu designates 209.85.219.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pratt@cs.stanford.edu X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Impersonation-Protect: Policy=MQ - Tag Header Only on Default Settings;Similar Internal Domain=false;Similar Monitored External Domain=false;Custom External Domain=false;Mimecast External Domain=false;Newly Observed Domain=false;Internal User Name=false;Custom Display Name List=false;Reply-to Address Mismatch=false;Targeted Threat Dictionary=false;Mimecast Threat Dictionary=false;Custom Threat Dictionary=false Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000979a98060fac94f6" X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-EOPTenantAttributedMessage: 82c514c1-a717-4087-be06-d40d2070ad52:0 X-MS-Exchange-SkipListedInternetSender: ip=[209.85.219.176];domain=mail-yb1-f176.google.com X-MS-Exchange-ExternalOriginalInternetSender: ip=[209.85.219.176];domain=mail-yb1-f176.google.com X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SY4AUS01FT020:EE_|SYBPR01MB6400:EE_|ME3PR01MB7304:EE_|ME3PR01MB5814:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 3533cec6-4ea3-47a8-8891-08dc1cb3c9c2 X-Moderation-Data: 1/24/2024 8:22:03 AM X-LD-Processed: 82c514c1-a717-4087-be06-d40d2070ad52,ExtAddr,ExtAddr X-MS-Exchange-AtpMessageProperties: SA X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:103.96.20.101;CTRY:US;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:mail-yb1-f176.google.com;PTR:mail-yb1-f176.google.com;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230031)(4636009)(346002)(376002)(136003)(396003)(39860400002)(61400799012)(48200799006)(82310400011)(64100799003)(8000799017)(451199024)(40470700004)(316002)(68406010)(786003)(70586007)(53546011)(26005)(42186006)(9686003)(156005)(40480700001)(40460700003)(498600001)(82740400003)(33964004)(89122003)(88732003)(7636003)(7596003)(76576003)(32850700003)(6666004)(45080400002)(166002)(8676002)(4326008)(8936002)(7116003)(6862004)(7336002)(7406005)(7366002)(7276002)(7416002)(5660300002)(966005)(35950700001)(32650700002)(3480700007)(83380400001)(336012)(2906002)(86362001)(55446002)(75432002)(41300700001)(15398625002)(41080700001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102; X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3533cec6-4ea3-47a8-8891-08dc1cb3c9c2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 82c514c1-a717-4087-be06-d40d2070ad52 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SY4AUS01FT020.eop-AUS01.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2024 08:22:05.6892 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: v/zEYjvz4jv7vXsVkVQyZyQvdeUZgnPLAHx4yZW+qqodhTOob4iRHBAFmqeh1P/+HfmqYIcpyEtSFzNwqA0prxgI/54lV08PycU6ZU5zRkrICk3Gzm6m98p+zrEQU74t9vfYqqyV3Rb5xJoDd4abGdv7acVjYC0pjSi+5QalEIGjui0a0eeD3+ympt/oTfZLouaKx+KVnVDhy8gOuoLFyzzOdMZN0K0umLcP4aABrWE= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: ME3PR01MB5814 X-MS-Exchange-UnifiedGroup-DisplayName: Categories mailing list X-MS-Exchange-UnifiedGroup-Address: categories@mq.edu.au X-MS-Exchange-UnifiedGroup-MailboxGuid: 9c2f954e-92a7-451b-b723-a07075d7adb5 X-MS-Exchange-UnifiedGroup-CustomizedMessage: RedeemedBusinessGuests X-MS-Exchange-Parent-Message-Id: Auto-Submitted: auto-generated X-MS-Exchange-Generated-Message-Source: Throttled Fork Delivery Agent X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?QWE2MmNxbzZvVTBUaGU2ZjRPZGpOM2xXSEVTdkIzNGhabGgxR3NXbUx3TERu?= =?utf-8?B?MmFKRVBhR3g5RUNVSDQ4WVJYd0ZKVFY3dWRiV21LTTZDQ2J4UDZaZ2Nmakor?= =?utf-8?B?SkY3TVhaYmYxaDA3WXcrRFBETTdVYzZpNm1LdE83YzJUdjlQTWFlMG5UYW5w?= =?utf-8?B?V3NnbFJNQzM1eTFjZHNkNzBteFhsREhvZEJVb2Q0T1FkalRZU1doSkxERFlj?= =?utf-8?B?QXZzazFxMmVNZHB0TlZtTlFWSjd4UDZlUTljejdPN0FxaTBtWnErY3c3UEk2?= =?utf-8?B?L2o4QUVka3pGYStrWk9pcmFTVUU2UG5IeTVFeEFhUHNxODJsR1l3UlF6b2xT?= =?utf-8?B?ay9LdmZ0Q2JKbkdDSjZaR2l3MFBwRVhxZm9qYnN0OVlWeDkwRWxRQkMzd2Jy?= =?utf-8?B?UkJDT05ZeDNVZ0U0dCtxdTdCa25hdWh2QW1zTUZLblhLWWQ2dkQ2VVdGSkV3?= =?utf-8?B?eGNUZnRqZGVNdGJZVVRJRXJQTW91RnN1QTBPU1V1NXFtb2RsVGpxNlJGYnVC?= =?utf-8?B?YzhKZVFQcEprNGtCaS9icThRTzBtRGo2UjY0SW1hcGJpVnVHdTQzaXV2REtz?= =?utf-8?B?YnNyYXNPUU5TUHlEQjdqUURucjc1Zk9mZTg4N0xGbGZvRmVNcnVBTjREbWRL?= =?utf-8?B?NTMxT0hscm1CZk03ZVllQUJhMEpibWE2SEpHTVRqUkNwZUVlR29EZ0RuMVlV?= =?utf-8?B?Uk9Qa1lXZGpDVStOMWRXSXhVUk1VNTlWVjVEanVvcGcyRFhJTHE0eGxzWitZ?= =?utf-8?B?WFNDTkZORWF0bTNYT2FGOVZJemVhRmxjK2VlK2RiYkhyblJ6R0l6c3A0bTV2?= =?utf-8?B?Um4xZVAxWjE1cnM0aEFkYjhSR1Vhb2NDWXNsbXRPcnJHRy9haXBvZTNZSGYx?= =?utf-8?B?WEQ5alBtYzBuOUpBQ3pET2ljODBCVThlbHpwL0tSNlRINFBFMGd4d1RtVzlH?= =?utf-8?B?YmhFeHRQSzdremtQcVkyZTJYcFJac2ttdmRqait6MkZlZjI1US9UekJyV2Z0?= =?utf-8?B?Mjk3K2ZacFNrMnVNQUxaOG1qTzhPYlhKVlhHYkNJaG1hcjBMWmJxRzkxVmFY?= =?utf-8?B?V0g1VUVqMXgrZEhZdGFXZkdGMm1oNC82MzM3YSt2UThGc1Nxc1YyalZqNlph?= =?utf-8?B?QXJJY3krNkZzYnRQdEZvTVpZYlRVSUQrNlU2bkhPdFNyZFc0c1o1MXFCN1Fw?= =?utf-8?B?Qm42REd5ZFZUQjFtc0tPZVBZL0pnR0pKWmxQOFZoWWdXTTdTQW5GWE53QjRy?= =?utf-8?B?ejRNR1Nla2k0bTNIOVFqajRGWUFOTTF2MHk1Q2hXazJWR2xqZWFMcXFSdExP?= =?utf-8?B?NnNLVG5OWWEwRmlpZjVZWDQ1WWdCMzVpVmJrS0pIUURDc0oyeWRGNXhrQ0Ru?= =?utf-8?B?L0xTNXIvTEt1Q0VHbG8yMzBNaUJoMWJ1cktac3B3TEozLzNZeEkwSFRXVllO?= =?utf-8?B?cVUrZjB2UjI3QmVkMEtvaHVJQkZ2U0hvRzFxSGNBbTIzVnBHYTFJLzI5TGhO?= =?utf-8?B?dTVRbTJiaHE5c1ZpNVBoV3hQcjhFTHYxYThDUXEySlpRUy9nM2tuUmJiSUVM?= =?utf-8?B?QzEvZWd6NWZKYytCNXpsVFliYk8rYmFCL2kxbE1LSDQrT29MU0hLTElkUndW?= =?utf-8?B?R01iOUhnNzFQYVRhNEVxTFF3N3crbGN2TnZrbUNoYWtyNkxCYUtYQzRVOEt2?= =?utf-8?B?WFJEQnI2cEtUR1ZQalAyVUZrbUFYM1ZJTVZpWFRXRHNZa0ZERVhCU2llcTl3?= =?utf-8?B?dzEzUW93MzZOaHkvQjVCWHJZeFo4SzBjNTFZRUVCb2QrSFpqb3FpdDduRGQ5?= =?utf-8?B?TlA1Q0tmYldZQWlNSjB1SGIrSG11YTlRVUUwako2YWlURDNnamdJZWtXUzRv?= =?utf-8?B?NU91aVVGNFV0WXcySU9QREEzdmtmY0R5MjdoQVNJVGtWbVB0Q20rNlowK2Zs?= =?utf-8?Q?URvYGemETm8=3D?= X-OriginatorOrg: mq.edu.au --000000000000979a98060fac94f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for that "ungated" link to B=C3=A9nabou's 1985 JSL paper, Wes. As it turned out, I'd downloaded all 28 pages back in 2011, I can't remember why. Moreover it arrived 26 years earlier in my mailbox in 1985, but who reads every article, especially if you're more on the universal algebra side than the category theory side in 1985. Now that it's 2024, what I'm wondering is, is there 28 pages of useful information there? I appreciate the idea of a fibration as a functor C =E2=86=92 B where B is = a "base category" looking enough like *Set* (aka *Ens*). In recent years I've been writing about the Yoneda embedding as a way of viewing Chu spaces over *Set= *, namely as Set-valued functors representing structured objects. This sort of thing is closer to toposes than abelian categories, both of which I like a lot given that the Big Bang seems to have evolved from a topos to (at least in our neighborhood) an abelian category. What I'm having difficulty with is why Jean took 28 pages to make his point. It seemed better suited to the Journal of Philosophical Logic than to JSL. I'm a great fan of Einstein's "make everything as simple as possible but no simpler". However that implies that there's a boundary, and in the case of fibrations and definability, I'm not at all clear as to where that boundary should be drawn. Vaughan Pratt https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/3wnSC81Vq2CRLlpYinMtKz?domain=3Dclim8.sta= nford.edu On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 4:03=E2=80=AFPM Wesley Phoa w= rote: > Ungated link to the 1985 JSL paper (see p35 for definition of > definability): > https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/dV7XC91W8rCB9vE2CEg1qQ?domain=3Dartscim= edia.case.edu > > > > Sent > > On Jan 22, 2024, at 12:00=E2=80=AFPM, Francis Borceux < > francis.borceux@uclouvain.be> wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > Sorry, and thanks to Jon for noticing the slip of terminology in my mail. > > Indeed, B=C3=A9nabou was insisting on the importance of his notion of > definability. > > Francis > > *********************************** > Francis Borceux > 6 rue Fran=C3=A7ois > 1490 Court-Saint-=C3=89tienne > Belgique > Fixe: +32(0)10614205 > Mobile: +32(0)478390328 > > > ---------- > > You're receiving this message because you're a member of the Categories > mailing list group from Macquarie University. > > Leave group: > > https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/tWvzC0YKgRs3ZKwmh2TvYJ?domain=3Doutlook= .office365.com > > > --000000000000979a98060fac94f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tha= nks for that "ungated" link to B=C3=A9nabou's 1985 JSL paper,= Wes.

As it turned out, I= 'd downloaded all 28 pages back in 2011, I can't remember why.=C2= =A0 Moreover it arrived 26 years earlier in my mailbox in 1985, but who rea= ds every article, especially if you're more on the universal algebra si= de than the category theory side in 1985.

Now that it's 2024, what I'm wondering is, is = there 28 pages of useful information there?

I appreciate the idea of a fibration as a functor C = =E2=86=92 B where B is a "base category" looking enough like S= et (aka Ens).=C2=A0 In recent years I've been writing about = the Yoneda embedding as a way of viewing Chu spaces over Set, namely= as Set-valued functors representing structured objects.=C2=A0 This sort of= thing is closer to toposes than abelian categories, both of which I like a= lot given that the Big Bang seems to have evolved from a topos to (at leas= t in our neighborhood) an abelian category.

What I'm having difficulty with is why Jean took= 28 pages to make his point.=C2=A0 It seemed better suited to the Journal o= f Philosophical Logic than to JSL.

I'm a great fan of Einstein's "make everything as s= imple as possible but no simpler".=C2=A0 However that implies that the= re's a boundary, and in the case of fibrations and definability, I'= m not at all clear as to where that boundary should be drawn.

Vaughan Pratt
http://clim8.stan= ford.edu


On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 4:03=E2=80=AFPM Wesley Phoa <doctorwes@gmail.com> wrote:
Ungate= d link to the 1985 JSL paper (see p35 for definition of definability):=C2= =A0https://artscimedia.case.edu/w= p-content/uploads/2013/07/14182624/Benabou-Fibered.pdf
--000000000000979a98060fac94f6--