Re: Applied Categorical Structures and other overpriced journals

Re: Applied Categorical Structures and other overpriced journals

[jim stasheff]

It's always possible to put the ball back in any publisher's court
by using their form but crossing out anything objectinable.

jim

On Jun 11, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Michael Barr wrote:

> I did not know that Elsevier had changed it policies in that
> regard.  I
> did know that if you asked they would send you a different copyright
> transfer form asking only for a permission to print, but you had to
> know
> to ask for it and my last publication in PAA was a dozen years
> ago.  And a
> colleague of mine got a "lawyer's letter" from some journal
> demanding that
> he remove a paper from his own web site.
>
> Although I am glad (I suppose) to hear that they have yielded on this
> point, my basic objection remains.
>
> Michael
>

Re: Applied Categorical Structures and other overpriced journals

[Martin Escardo]

jim stasheff writes:
 > It's always possible to put the ball back in any publisher's court
 > by using their form but crossing out anything objectinable.

Indeed, I have done this since 1995, and added, by hand, that I
reserve the right of posting the papers at my university web page for
scholarly purposes, with no objections by the publishers.

However, for my last paper, I was sent a copyright form, by IEEE, to
be electronically signed. There were no means of crossing things out
or adding my own clauses, and no options for printing the form and
faxing it! Moreover, there was a short deadline for signing it, on the
grounds that otherwise my paper wouldn't make it for the proceedings,
and hence no opportunity to negotiate.

Martin Escardo

Re: Applied Categorical Structures and other overpriced journals

[Michael Barr]

I did not know that Elsevier had changed it policies in that regard.  I
did know that if you asked they would send you a different copyright
transfer form asking only for a permission to print, but you had to know
to ask for it and my last publication in PAA was a dozen years ago.  And a
colleague of mine got a "lawyer's letter" from some journal demanding that
he remove a paper from his own web site.

Although I am glad (I suppose) to hear that they have yielded on this
point, my basic objection remains.

Michael

On Sat, 9 Jun 2007, John Baez wrote:

> Michael Barr wrote:
>
> >After thinking about it, I cannot restrain myself from responding to
> >Ross's message that the procedings of CT07 will be published by Applied
> >Categorical Structures.  [...]
>
> Indeed!  It's a pity that the proceedings of the main international
> conference on category theory is going to be buried in this journal.
>
> Why not publish it in TAC?
>
> >ACS is published by Kluwer (now a subsidary of Springer).  Kluwer is one
> >of the "gang of five"  publishers that are sucking all the life (not to
> >mention money) out of mathematical publication.  The journal is not
> >subscribed to by McGill nor by any other university in Montreal.  I would
> >actually be surprised if any university in Canada or more than a small
> >handful in the US subscribe.  It is no wonder since they charge, as far as
> >I can tell, in the neighbourhood of $3 a page so that the annual
> >subscription of nearly 100 pages costs nearly $3000.  The author of a
> >paper published there is legally enjoined from posting it on his own web
> >site.
>
> Is that still true?  If so, that's terrible.  Even most Reed-Elsevier
> journals allow you to keep your papers on your own website - and more
> importantly, on the mathematics arXiv.
>
> However, Reed-Elsevier only officially accepted these practices recently.
> Before that, it worked like this: if you demanded the right to keep your
> paper on the arXiv, they'd give in and let you do it.  I think they were
> trying to avoid public battles, to keep from looking bad.
>
> So, if anybody feels compelled to publish in a Springer/Kluwer/Reed-Elsevier
> journal for some reason, they should simply refuse to give away the
> complete electronic rights to their papers.  If necessary, amend the copyright
> form to say you have the right to keep your article on your website and
> the arXiv.  Journals are unlikely to turn away papers for this reason
> after they've already been accepted for publication.
>
> You can read the copyright transfer forms for some math journals here:
>
> http://front.math.ucdavis.edu/journals#copyright
>
> and many more here:
>
> http://www.sherpa.ac.uk/romeo.php
>
> Unfortunately, the information about Springer seems a bit contradictory.
>
> Best,
> jb
>
>
>
>

Applied Categorical Structures and other overpriced journals

[John Baez]

Michael Barr wrote:

>After thinking about it, I cannot restrain myself from responding to
>Ross's message that the procedings of CT07 will be published by Applied
>Categorical Structures.  [...]

Indeed!  It's a pity that the proceedings of the main international
conference on category theory is going to be buried in this journal.

Why not publish it in TAC?

>ACS is published by Kluwer (now a subsidary of Springer).  Kluwer is one
>of the "gang of five"  publishers that are sucking all the life (not to
>mention money) out of mathematical publication.  The journal is not
>subscribed to by McGill nor by any other university in Montreal.  I would
>actually be surprised if any university in Canada or more than a small
>handful in the US subscribe.  It is no wonder since they charge, as far as
>I can tell, in the neighbourhood of $3 a page so that the annual
>subscription of nearly 100 pages costs nearly $3000.  The author of a
>paper published there is legally enjoined from posting it on his own web
>site.

Is that still true?  If so, that's terrible.  Even most Reed-Elsevier
journals allow you to keep your papers on your own website - and more
importantly, on the mathematics arXiv.

However, Reed-Elsevier only officially accepted these practices recently.
Before that, it worked like this: if you demanded the right to keep your
paper on the arXiv, they'd give in and let you do it.  I think they were
trying to avoid public battles, to keep from looking bad.

So, if anybody feels compelled to publish in a Springer/Kluwer/Reed-Elsevier
journal for some reason, they should simply refuse to give away the
complete electronic rights to their papers.  If necessary, amend the copyright
form to say you have the right to keep your article on your website and
the arXiv.  Journals are unlikely to turn away papers for this reason
after they've already been accepted for publication.

You can read the copyright transfer forms for some math journals here:

http://front.math.ucdavis.edu/journals#copyright

and many more here:

http://www.sherpa.ac.uk/romeo.php

Unfortunately, the information about Springer seems a bit contradictory.

Best,
jb