From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/4730 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Porter Newsgroups: gmane.science.mathematics.categories Subject: Re: Science Citation Index Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:16:00 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: Tim Porter NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=ISO-8859-1;DelSp="Yes";format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1241020135 14580 80.91.229.2 (29 Apr 2009 15:48:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:48:55 +0000 (UTC) To: categories@mta.ca Original-X-From: rrosebru@mta.ca Fri Dec 5 20:17:26 2008 -0400 Return-path: Envelope-to: categories-list@mta.ca Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 20:17:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Majordom by mailserv.mta.ca with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1L8klD-0002db-5D for categories-list@mta.ca; Fri, 05 Dec 2008 20:11:03 -0400 Content-Disposition: inline Original-Sender: categories@mta.ca Precedence: bulk X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 Original-Lines: 138 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.science.mathematics.categories:4730 Archived-At: On the subject of the ISI citation index, I wonder if what is being=20=20= =0A= done is consistent with anti-trust laws in the USA and with fair=20=20=0A= competition laws in the EU. The refusal of Thomson's to accept=20=20=0A= reputable journals and also to justify their refusal looks to me to be=20= =20=0A= suspect on legal grounds. Does any one know of any legal challenges=20=20= =0A= to this.=0A= =0A= It may be that the EMS and AMS should start a ridicularising campaign.=20= =20=0A= Public money n many countries is going to a so-called service that=20=20= =0A= is not being performed at a professional level.=0A= =0A= Tim=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Quoting Joachim Kock :=0A= =0A= > Hello category theorists,=0A= >=0A= > just to report that in Spain, Thomson's Science Citation Index is now=0A= > the main measure of quality of publication in mathematics: every report= =0A= > and application has to indicate impact factor(*) and citation count(**) of= =0A= > all one's papers -- and papers in journals not indexed (or in conference= =0A= > proceedings) simply don't count as papers! As a concrete example, I=0A= > received last year an evalutation from the Ministry of Science and=0A= > Education explicitly telling me that I need to improve the number of=0A= > papers published in indexed journals.=0A= >=0A= > (*) Impact factor is really a silly measure for quality: for example=0A= > many learned societies distribute papers into several different journals= =0A= > only according to length but using otherwise the same criteria for=0A= > acceptance, whereas those different journals can have very different=0A= > impact factors in Thomson's index. (It may interest some of you that=0A= > the Elsevier journal CHAOS SOLITONS & FRACTALS edited by El Naschie has a= =0A= > higher impact factor than Annals of Mathematics.)=0A= >=0A= > (**) Of course the citation count is Thomson's count, which counts only= =0A= > citations from Thomson indexed papers, and even fails to identify=0A= > preprint citations to papers later indexed. (E.g. paper A cites preprint= =0A= > B. When B is published in an indexed journal the citation from A does=0A= > not count.)=0A= >=0A= > It has a very bad effect, especially on young researchers, who have to=0A= > follow the rules of Thomson's and Ministry's game, and look up impact=0A= > factors before choosing which journal to submit to, instead of following= =0A= > scientific criteria.=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > Furthermore, access to Thomson's database is not free. (The Spanish=0A= > Ministry has paid access for all Spanish universities, instead of using= =0A= > that money to fund research.) It is more than likely that Thomson is=0A= > affiliated in some way with Elsevier and other publishing houses -- in=0A= > any case they share the same goals of extracting money from science=0A= > budgets -- and therefore free journals represent a threat, and it is not= =0A= > very likely that any free electronical journal will be included in=0A= > Thomson's index. It did happen with 'Geometry & Topology', though...=0A= >=0A= > I agree with George that it is important to get TAC and Cahiers into the= =0A= > AMS citation database. This should be possible just by scientific=0A= > reasons. Before that happens I think there is not much hope to enter=0A= > Thomson's index...=0A= >=0A= > The real problem is to convince science foundations and other funding=0A= > agencies to boycott Thomson. Just getting more and more good journals=0A= > into Thomson's index is not going to help with that :-(=0A= >=0A= > Gettting the categories journals into the AMS citation database will=0A= > help providing a strong alternative to Thomson.=0A= >=0A= > Cheers,=0A= > Joachim.=0A= >=0A= > ----------------------------------------------------------------=0A= > Joachim Kock =0A= > Departament de Matem=E0tiques -- Universitat Aut=F2noma de Barcelona=0A= > Edifici C -- 08193 Bellaterra (Barcelona) -- ESPANYA=0A= > Phone: +34 93 581 25 34 Fax: +34 93 581 27 90=0A= > ----------------------------------------------------------------=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= ----------------------------------------------------------------=0A= This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.=0A= =0A= =0A= --=20=0A= Gall y neges e-bost hon, ac unrhyw atodiadau a anfonwyd gyda hi,=0A= gynnwys deunydd cyfrinachol ac wedi eu bwriadu i'w defnyddio'n unig=0A= gan y sawl y cawsant eu cyfeirio ato (atynt). 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