From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/5491 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: selinger@mathstat.dal.ca (Peter Selinger) Newsgroups: gmane.science.mathematics.categories Subject: Re: dagger not evil Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 01:50:34 -0400 (AST) Message-ID: References: Reply-To: selinger@mathstat.dal.ca (Peter Selinger) NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1262917668 32645 80.91.229.12 (8 Jan 2010 02:27:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 02:27:48 +0000 (UTC) To: toby+categories@ugcs.caltech.edu Original-X-From: categories@mta.ca Fri Jan 08 03:27:41 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: gsmc-categories@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mailserv.mta.ca ([138.73.1.1]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NT4Zf-00018Y-Qc for gsmc-categories@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 03:27:40 +0100 Original-Received: from Majordom by mailserv.mta.ca with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1NT44t-00036a-Or for categories-list@mta.ca; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:55:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: Original-Sender: categories@mta.ca Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.science.mathematics.categories:5491 Archived-At: Toby Bartels wrote: > > Andr=E9 Joyal wrote in small part: > > >In other words the forgetful functor DCat ---> Cat is wrong. > > This reminds me of the fact that the obvious forgetful functor > Ban -> Set or Hilb -> Set (where now Hilb is just a category, > with short linear maps as morphisms, not a dagger category) is wrong. > That is, the wrong forgetful functor takes the set of points, > whereas the right one takes the set of points in the closed unit ball. > (Of course, both functors exist, but the right one is representable.) > > While the obvious forgetful functor DCat -> Cat is wrong, > is there a right one? In particular, we have a functor > Cat -> Grpd that takes the lluf subcategory (LS) of invertible morphisms > and the functor DCat -> Grpd that takes the LS of unitary morphisms; > is there a functor DCat -> Cat that completes a commutative triangle? There is, because Cat -> Grpd is right invertible, but that is probably not the functor you had in mind. > Less rigorously but more concretely, can we start with Hilb+ > (the dagger category with all bounded linear maps as morphisms) > and systematically derive the class of short linear maps, > much as we can systematically derive the class of unitary maps? > Offhand, I don't see how to do this. > > (Note: "short" = "Lipschitz with Lipschitz constant at most 1", > so "short linear" = "bounded linear with norm at most 1".) > > --Toby As far as I know, you can't do this with a dagger structure alone; however, if you regard Hilb+ as a dagger category with dagger biproducts, then the short linear maps are definable as those maps f: A -> B satisfying (1) there exists some g: A -> C such that (f^dagger o f) + (g^dagger o g) = id, or equivalently, (2) there exists some h: D -> B such that (f o f^dagger) + (h o h^dagger) = id. In Hilb+, conditions (1) and (2) are equivalent for a given f. In a general dagger category with dagger biproducts, they are not equivalent (as the example Rel shows), and one should in general define a "short linear" morphism to be an f that satisfies both (1) and (2). The always form a dagger subcategory. In general, invertible + short linear, in this sense, does not imply unitary. A counterexample is chosen-basis vector spaces over Z_2 (with dot product as inner product), where all maps are short linear, but not all invertible maps are unitary. However, if one further assumes that the category satisfies the following strictness condition: (3) 1 + (g o g^dagger) = 1 implies g = 0, then invertible + short linear implies unitary. So something like your "right" forgetful functor DCat' -> Cat can be defined, where DCat' is DCat equipped with these additional hypotheses. I don't know whether there is a more organic definition that works in greater generality. -- Peter [For admin and other information see: http://www.mta.ca/~cat-dist/ ]