From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/5490 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thomas Streicher Newsgroups: gmane.science.mathematics.categories Subject: Re: Small is beautiful Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 12:12:32 +0100 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Thomas Streicher NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1262917668 32646 80.91.229.12 (8 Jan 2010 02:27:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 02:27:48 +0000 (UTC) To: Robert Pare Original-X-From: categories@mta.ca Fri Jan 08 03:27:41 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: gsmc-categories@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mailserv.mta.ca ([138.73.1.1]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NT4Zf-00018X-Qc for gsmc-categories@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 03:27:40 +0100 Original-Received: from Majordom by mailserv.mta.ca with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1NT479-0003CZ-6i for categories-list@mta.ca; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:58:11 -0400 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Original-Sender: categories@mta.ca Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.science.mathematics.categories:5490 Archived-At: A few little comments on "small is beautiful" 1) The nice thing about small cats is that externalizing them gives rise to a split fibration and that allows one to speak about equality of objects. But if we have got a split fibration P : XX -> BB it may be considered as a small cat over \widehat{BB} = Set^{BB^op} (for Set big enough). To my knowledge this observation is due to Jean B'enabou and also found its way into Bart Jacob's book. 2) Identifying small with representable seems to be an idea going back to Grothendieck already (as told to me by Jean B'enabou and taken up by him). Namely Grothendieck's notion of representable morphism in \widehat{BB} captures the notion of a family of small things indexed by a possibly large index object (arbitrary presheaf). The identification of small as representable lies at the heart of B'enabou's definitions of the properties locally small and well powered for fibrations. In this sense the definition of n elementary topos also amounts to a smallness condition: namely as a category EE with finite limits such that its fundamental fibration EE^2 -> E is well powered. 3) Use of the idea "small is representable" has been made in Algebraic Set Theory (AST) in the formulation of Awodey, Simpson and collaborators (see www.phil.cmu.edu/projects/ast/ for more information). There starting from a topos EE or (when working "predicatively") from a locally cartesian closed pretopos EE one considers the topos Sh(EE) of sheaves over EE w.r.t. the coherent, i.e. finite cover topology. Sh(EE) is thought of a category of classes and the full subcat of representables as the full subcat of sets. But Sh(EE) is a bit too large because for objects X in Sh(EE) the diagonal \delta_X (equality on X) need not be a representable morphism (and well behaved predicates should be since otherwise separation would lead out of sets). Thus instead of Sh(EE) one considers the full subcategory Idl(EE) of Sh(EE) on those separated objects, i.e. those where the diagonal is a representable mono). Notice that separated for a presheaf over EE (a split discrete fibration over EE) means that equality is definable in the sense of B'enabou. It was suggested to Awodey et.al. by Joyal that the separated objects in Sh(EE) can be characterized as those presheaves over EE which can be obtained as an "ideal colimit" of representable objects ("ideal" meaning directed diagram of monos). A further nice characterization of X being in Idl(EE) is that the image of a map y(A) -> X (taken in Sh(EE)) is again representable. Now working in Idl(EE) one can define for X in Sh(EE) its "class of subsets" P(X) as follows: P(X)(Y) is the collection of subobjects of y(I) x X whose source is representable, i.e. monos of the form y(J) >--> y(I) x X. By iterating P one obtains fixpoints (not representable) of P which serve as universes for interpreting appropriately weak set theories. As already mentioned by Bob the set theorist Vopenka wrote a lot about set theories where subclasses of sets needn't be sets again. He called "semiset" a subclass of a set which is not a set itself. Although Vopenka doesn't emphasize this point he is working in an ultra power extension of V_\omega (because he wants the negation of the Infinity axiom to hold) and there subclasses of a set need not be in the ultra power extension. As I have heard (and seen some notes of talks by him) B'enabou quite some time ago worked on a Nonstandard Theory of Classes which relates to Nelson's Internal Set Theory like GBN to ZFC. I am vaguely aware of extensive work by NSA people on nonstandard class and set theories motivated by similar ideas (but this was much later) but they have a somewhat richer ontology. There are 2 books to mention in this context Anatoly G. Kusraev, E. I. Gordon, S. S. Kutateladze "Infinitesimal Analysis" Kluwer Academic Pub (2002) V. Kanovei, M. Reeken "Nonstandard Analysis, Axiomatically" Springer 2004 Both views have in common that "set" has nothing to do with size but rather with "being definable in a reasonable sense" (the collection of standard elements of a set is typically not a set because "standard" is not a clear cut notion). This was concealed by early axiomatizations of class theory. I wonder now whether these two notions of "smallness" (better called "sethood") can be reconciled more precisely. -- Thomas [For admin and other information see: http://www.mta.ca/~cat-dist/ ]