From: soloviev@irit.fr
To: "Ronnie Brown" <ronnie.profbrown@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re terminology:
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:58:09 +0200 (CEST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1OFBK0-0000cl-Ow@mailserv.mta.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1OEt8E-00071o-4W@mailserv.mta.ca>
My personal opinion is that this process is very much influenced
by the pressure of "bibliometry", "impact factors" and other "modern
trends" - people often not very scrupulously invent and reinvent
terminology to be better cited, and, conscious or not, it often very
much smells of imposture.
Sergei Soloviev
> Peter Sellinger writes recently:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> I think this is a very apt illustration of what happens if a term with
> an existing meaning is redefined to mean something else. Henceforth it
> is impossible for anybody to use the term (with either meaning)
> without first giving a definition.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> I completely agree. My own problem is with term `infinity groupoid' which
> is used to describe something which is not even a groupoid, and whose use
> seems to me to militate against the understanding of what has been
> achieved with the original and much earlier definition. I once asked
> Gian-Carl Rota about such change of terminology, in connection with a
> refereeing job, and he agreed that mathematicians are used to creating
> confusion in this way.
>
> There are two easy tendencies: one is to use an old name in a quite
> different way, and the other is to use a new name for an old idea, so that
> the use of the old term looks old fashioned, and a lot of work may be
> consigned to the dustbin of history, becoming not easy of access for new
> students.
>
> It seems to be an example of these confusions is the way the simplicial
> singular complex of a space is called an infinity-groupoid, even the
> `fundamental infinity groupoid', when what seems to be referred to is that
> it is a Kan complex, i.e. satisfies the Kan extension condition, studied
> since 1955. The new term sounds like `dressing up' an old idea to look
> new. My personal objection to this change of terminology (i.e. axe to
> grind!) is that this distracts from studying the not so simple proofs that
> strict higher homotopical structures exist, which mainly are for
> structured spaces (in particular filtered spaces (Brown/Higgins, Ashley),
> n-cubes of spaces (Loday), and more recently smooth spaces (Faria
> Martins/Picken)). The analysis and comparison of these uses should be
> made. It was certainly a relief to Philip and I that we could do something
> with filtered spaces which we could not do for the absolute case; the
> significance of the fact that these constructions work and lead to
> specific calculations should be thought about.
>
> The term `higher dimensional group theory' which was published in a paper
> with that title in 1982 was intended to suggest developing higher groupoid
> theory and its relations to homotopy theory in the spirit of group theory,
> which meant specific constructions relevant to geometry and calculations,
> even computer calculations, of many examples, in which actual numbers
> arise as a test of and examples of the general theory, and in which some
> aspects of group theory are sensibly seen as better represented in the
> higher dimensional theory; and example of this is the nonabelian tensor
> product of groups, where group theorists have found lots of pickings.
>
> I am not sure how these terminological problems will be resolved, and I
> know the term (\infty,n)-groupoid has been well used recently but the
> problem of relation to the older ideas, which have had a certain success,
> should be recognised.
>
> Ronnie Brown
>
[For admin and other information see: http://www.mta.ca/~cat-dist/ ]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-05-20 7:58 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-05-19 10:38 Ronnie Brown
2010-05-20 7:58 ` soloviev [this message]
2010-05-20 19:53 ` terminology Eduardo J. Dubuc
2010-05-20 22:15 ` Re terminology: Joyal, Andre
2010-05-20 11:58 ` Urs Schreiber
[not found] ` <AANLkTikre9x4Qikw0mqOl1qZs9DDSkcBu3CXWA05OTQT@mail.gmail.com>
2010-05-21 17:00 ` Ronnie Brown
2010-05-22 19:40 ` Joyal, André
[not found] ` <B3C24EA955FF0C4EA14658997CD3E25E370F5827@CAHIER.gst.uqam.ca>
2010-05-22 21:43 ` terminology Ronnie Brown
[not found] ` <4BF84FF3.7060806@btinternet.com>
2010-05-22 22:44 ` terminology Joyal, André
2010-05-23 15:39 ` terminology Colin McLarty
2010-05-24 13:42 ` equivalence terminology Paul Taylor
2010-05-24 15:53 ` we do meet isomorphisms of categories Marco Grandis
2010-05-26 15:21 ` Toby Bartels
2010-05-27 9:29 ` Prof. Peter Johnstone
[not found] ` <alpine.LRH.2.00.1005271007240.11352@siskin.dpmms.cam.ac.uk>
2010-05-27 10:08 ` Marco Grandis
2010-05-30 12:05 ` Joyal, André
2010-05-24 18:04 ` terminology Vaughan Pratt
2010-05-26 3:08 ` terminology Toby Bartels
2010-05-24 23:06 ` Equality again Joyal, André
2010-05-26 2:27 ` Patrik Eklund
2010-05-27 11:30 ` Prof. Peter Johnstone
2010-06-01 6:36 ` Marco Grandis
2010-06-01 14:38 ` Joyal, André
2010-05-25 14:08 ` terminology John Baez
2010-05-25 19:39 ` terminology Colin McLarty
2010-05-29 21:47 ` terminology Toby Bartels
2010-05-30 19:15 ` terminology Thorsten Altenkirch
[not found] ` <A46C7965-B4E7-42E6-AE97-6C1D930AC878@cs.nott.ac.uk>
2010-05-30 20:51 ` terminology Toby Bartels
2010-06-01 7:39 ` terminology Thorsten Altenkirch
2010-06-01 13:33 ` terminology Peter LeFanu Lumsdaine
[not found] ` <7BF50141-7775-4D3C-A4AF-D543891666B9@cs.nott.ac.uk>
2010-06-01 18:22 ` terminology Toby Bartels
2010-05-26 8:03 ` terminology Reinhard Boerger
[not found] ` <4BF6BC2C.2000606@btinternet.com>
2010-05-21 18:48 ` Re terminology: Urs Schreiber
[not found] ` <AANLkTilG69hcX7ZV8zrLpQ_nf1pCmyktsnuE0RyJtQYF@mail.gmail.com>
2010-05-26 8:28 ` terminology John Baez
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