From: Ronnie Brown <ronnie.profbrown@btinternet.com>
To: "F. William Lawvere" <wlawvere@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: covering spaces and groupoids
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 22:18:45 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1OM7AF-0004LL-Qf@mailserv.mta.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <BAY127-W27B937A70F21FD2BD806D2C6D10@phx.gbl>
Dear Bill,
You ask:
In the applications of algebraic topology to topology, where do the
‘basepoints’ originate?
I'd like to give a different type of answer to that suggested in your
list. (yet another is : whoopee, we have a group!)
After I first thought of the van Kampen theorem for the whole
fundamental groupoid I realised one wanted *computation*, and the whole
fundamental groupoid of a space was too big for that. The fundamental
group at a base point was too small in may cases, such as the circle.
The solution that seemed right to me, and which took a while to find,
was the fundamental groupoid on a set of base points chosen conveniently
according to the geometry of a given situation. Eldon Dyer said I ought
to take a hard line on this: if the connected space X is the union of
127 open sets whose intersections have 3,272 components, you do not want
to take a single base point! Such situations (even with infinitely many
components) occur in group theory applications, and analogously in
topology in connected covering spaces over a union of 2 open sets.
I advocated the fundamental groupoid on a set of base points in my 1968
book `Elements of Modern Topology', but this concept has I think not
been mentioned in any later date algebraic topology text in English by
other authors. Also group theorists are happy with graphs and free
groups, but are very wary of the free groupoid on a graph! The only new
result from that book that has been taken up is the gluing theorem for
homotopy equivalences, but its origin is usually unacknowledged.
Looking at the way this groupoid van Kampen theorem could be used, it
seemed amazing to me that one could obtain *complete* information on a
fundamental group by deducing that from knowledge of a larger structure,
for which one had colimit information, whereas my tries with nonabelian
cohomology gave only exact sequences. It seems that groupoids have the
advantages of structure in dimensions 0 and 1, and that this is needed
for what Grothendieck later called `integration of homotopy types'.
Could one find analogous objects with structure in dimensions 0, 1,
...,n? This question led (after many years, and with fortunate
collaborations) to higher dimensional van Kampen theorems, which gave
quite new information on homotopy invariants, some of them nonabelian,
e.g. second relative homotopy groups, triad homotopy groups, n-adic
Hurewicz Theorems. Such results were published in 1978, 1981 (with
Higgins), 1987 (with Loday). These theorems are, I think, not even
mentioned in any texts on algebraic topology (except mine). Some current
writers (Faria Martins, Kauffman, Ellis, Mikhailov,...) are using these
techniques.
So for me the question is: why are people unwilling to throw off the
shackles of a single base point? I would welcome enlightenment. It may
be that it is found just too hard to fit this idea into what is
currently considered the `real world', and so to obtain new results. For
example, what happens to iterated loop space theory, with more than one
base point?
Those interested in the sociology of science might like an excerpt from
a lecture by Alan MacKay on icosahedral symmetry at the LMS in 1985. He
said the reaction went through three phases:
Phase 1) It is false.
Phase 2) It is true, but unimportant.
Phase 3) It is true, it is very important; and we have known it for years!
All the best
Ronnie
[For admin and other information see: http://www.mta.ca/~cat-dist/ ]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-06-08 21:18 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 16+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-05-29 17:31 Isomorphisms of categories Peter May
2010-05-30 15:52 ` Toby Bartels
2010-05-30 17:50 ` jim stasheff
[not found] ` <4C02A580.2000606@math.upenn.edu>
2010-05-30 17:55 ` Peter May
2010-06-01 0:27 ` David Roberts
2010-06-01 8:56 ` covering spaces and groupoids Ronnie Brown
2010-06-01 19:44 ` Eduardo J. Dubuc
[not found] ` <4C04CB41.9080705@btinternet.com>
2010-06-01 12:53 ` Peter May
[not found] ` <4C0502DB.5030603@math.uchicago.edu>
2010-06-02 7:03 ` Ronnie Brown
2010-06-02 13:41 ` Peter May
[not found] ` <BAY127-W27B937A70F21FD2BD806D2C6D10@phx.gbl>
2010-06-08 21:18 ` Ronnie Brown [this message]
2010-06-03 18:14 ` F. William Lawvere
2010-06-04 4:12 ` Joyal, André
[not found] ` <B3C24EA955FF0C4EA14658997CD3E25E370F586B@CAHIER.gst.uqam.ca>
2010-06-04 9:37 ` Ronnie Brown
[not found] ` <4C08C956.5080808@btinternet.com>
2010-06-04 11:53 ` jim stasheff
2010-06-09 10:35 Marta Bunge
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