From: Toby Bartels <toby+categories@ugcs.caltech.edu>
To: categories@mta.ca
Cc: Thomas Streicher <streicher@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>
Subject: Re: are fibrations evil?
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 00:44:18 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1OwmDc-00010b-Vo@mlist.mta.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1OwQLJ-0002lj-14@mlist.mta.ca>
Thomas Streicher wrote at last:
>BTW under a regime which identifies equality with being isomorphic (or weakly
>equivalent) it looks tempting to use functors from B^\op to Cat. These should
>capture the pseudo-functors since equality and isomorphism are identified. But
>writing down functoriality in type theory using \Sigma for existence amounts
>to choosing a lot of not at all canonical "canonical isomorphisms". Actually,
>one would get something even more general than pseudo-functors because one
>wouldn't write down the coherence conditions (actually one couldn't even
>since there is no honest for good equality!).
Yes, you can write the coherence conditions down
(although I agree that it would be easy to forget them).
What you need is that a functor (pseudofunctor) P: B^\op -> Cat
is not just the following data:
* for each object x of B,
a category P_x,
* for each object x, object y, and morphism f: x -> y,
a functor P_f: P_x -> P_y,
* functoriality structure (and maybe coherence conditions);
but in fact the following data:
* for each object x of B,
a category P_x,
* for each object x, object y, and morphism f: x -> y,
a functor P_f: P_y -> P_x,
* for each object x, object y, and equal morphisms f = g: x -> y,
a natural isomorphism P_{f=g}: P_f => P_g,
* functoriality structure and coherence conditions.
For example, given f: w -> x, g: x -> y, and h: y -> z in B,
we want to compare (P_f . P_g) . P_h with P_f . (P_g . P_h).
In a "kosher" treatment of category theory, these aren't equal
(that would be meaningless), but there is an associator between them.
As a coherence condition, we want to demand that this associator
is equal (and this does have meaning) to a natural isomorphism
built out of the functoriality structure isomorphisms and their inverses.
As we do this, we need to compare P_{(f;g);h} and P_{f;(g;h)}.
Again, it's not meaningful (much less true) that these are equal,
but P_{(f;g);h = f;(g;h)} is a natural isomorphism between them.
So we can write down this coherence condition after all.
--Toby
[For admin and other information see: http://www.mta.ca/~cat-dist/ ]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-09-17 7:44 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-09-15 11:43 Thomas Streicher
2010-09-16 0:28 ` Michael Shulman
2010-09-16 1:14 ` Peter LeFanu Lumsdaine
2010-09-16 5:14 ` Is equality evil? Vaughan Pratt
2010-09-17 8:28 ` Toby Bartels
2010-09-18 14:11 ` Thomas Streicher
2010-09-19 20:30 ` Erik Palmgren
2010-09-24 12:50 ` Bas Spitters
[not found] ` <20100918141110.GC9467@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>
2010-09-22 4:00 ` Toby Bartels
2010-09-25 16:18 ` Michael Shulman
[not found] ` <20100922040041.GB14958@ugcs.caltech.edu>
2010-09-22 10:27 ` Thomas Streicher
2010-09-16 8:50 ` why it matters that fibrations are "evil" Thomas Streicher
[not found] ` <AANLkTinosTZ2NQW9biPxiwpX9zPi5m=kwvA16nHjK=Xu@mail.gmail.com>
2010-09-16 9:47 ` are fibrations evil? Thomas Streicher
2010-09-16 10:00 ` Prof. Peter Johnstone
[not found] ` <alpine.LRH.2.00.1009161023190.12162@siskin.dpmms.cam.ac.uk>
2010-09-16 10:46 ` Thomas Streicher
2010-09-17 7:44 ` Toby Bartels [this message]
[not found] ` <20100916094755.GA19976@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>
2010-09-17 5:01 ` Michael Shulman
2010-09-18 13:48 ` Thomas Streicher
[not found] ` <20100918134829.GB9467@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>
2010-09-20 16:25 ` Michael Shulman
2010-09-17 2:17 David Roberts
2010-09-17 4:36 John Baez
2010-09-18 13:50 ` Joyal, André
2010-09-19 14:57 ` David Yetter
[not found] ` <F8DA87C6-CBED-44AE-B964-B766A95D8417@math.ksu.edu>
2010-09-19 18:21 ` Joyal, André
2010-09-20 17:04 ` Eduardo J. Dubuc
2010-09-20 16:59 ` Eduardo J. Dubuc
2010-09-22 2:52 ` Toby Bartels
[not found] ` <20100922025245.GA14958@ugcs.caltech.edu>
2010-09-22 18:56 ` Eduardo J. Dubuc
[not found] ` <4C9A5156.3010307@dm.uba.ar>
2010-09-22 21:06 ` Toby Bartels
2010-09-24 23:43 Fred E.J. Linton
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