From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/6237 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Todd Trimble Newsgroups: gmane.science.mathematics.categories Subject: Re: subculture Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 23:06:31 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: Todd Trimble NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1285635623 22795 80.91.229.12 (28 Sep 2010 01:00:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 01:00:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Categories list To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Joyal=2C_Andr=E9?= Original-X-From: majordomo@mlist.mta.ca Tue Sep 28 03:00:22 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: gsmc-categories@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from smtpy.mta.ca ([138.73.1.139]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P0OYO-0001VU-Ap for gsmc-categories@m.gmane.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2010 03:00:21 +0200 Original-Received: from mlist.mta.ca ([138.73.1.63]:51876) by smtpy.mta.ca with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P0OXY-0005mN-ID; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:59:28 -0300 Original-Received: from majordomo by mlist.mta.ca with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P0OXT-0004y4-Ui for categories-list@mlist.mta.ca; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:59:24 -0300 Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.science.mathematics.categories:6237 Archived-At: Dear Andre, As someone who contributes to the nLab, let me assure you that opinions on the appropriateness of the word "evil" (in the sense being discussed here) also vary among workers in the nLab. Not all of the subscribers of this list may know about the nLab, but we are far from a homogeneous block. There are certainly regular nLab contributors who have voiced their displeasure with the word. I think you're right: the people who use this term are still a pretty small group. Nevertheless, sometimes slang terms do catch fire and become widespread, and evidently this has become a cause for alarm for some people here. While I won't take a position on the acceptability on the word myself, beyond saying that it's not likely to become part of my own language, I would at least like to defend its appearance in the nLab. To some extent, the nLab functions as a dictionary for those who work with categorical language (that is at least one of its functions). So one could view the people who edit the nLab as, in part, editors of a dictionary; as such, there is a kind of obligation to record uses of the living language and describe it as accurately as possible. Thus the function here is descriptive, not prescriptive (or proscriptive). That said, it's also true that reputable dictionaries will record how the word is received by speakers: some words may be described as 'vulgar' or 'offensive' (at least for some speakers), or as slang or substandard or whatever. So if a word like "evil" is offensive to some people here, it's arguably our responsibility to record that fact as well, and link to this discussion here. A case in point is the (I think tongue-in-cheek) expression "fascist functor". Some of you may recall that a "free functor" is to the "left" (in an adjoint string), so a "fascist functor" would be to the "right" in an adjoint string. It's a little jokey (as some people think "evil" is), and yet it still excites emotions, as we discovered in a recent nForum discussion. Something of those reactions were hinted at in the Lab, and I think we would do well to do the same with regard to "evil". Best, Todd ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Joyal, Andr=E9" To: "Ruadhai" ; "Eduardo J. Dubuc" Cc: "Categories list" Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 7:10 PM Subject: categories: RE : categories: subculture Dear All, I am displeased with the idea that terminology is purely conventional and that everything is acceptable. The "evil" terminology is promoted by a small group of peoples active in the nLab. It does not reflect a commun usage in the mathematical community. Best, Andr=E9 [For admin and other information see: http://www.mta.ca/~cat-dist/ ]