Plural form of topos

Plural form of topos

[Johannes Huebschmann]

Dear All

A minor comment:
The correct plural form of "topos" is "topoi",
as the plural form of "logos" is "logoi".
I vaguely remember that the plural form of "topos" was already
discussed on this board.

In ancient Greek, "(ho) topos" is a noun.
Here is a citation: "Ton de hyperouranion topon ..."
(Plato, Phaidros, Bibliotheca Oxoniensis, Tomus II, 247 c).
This citation shows that "topos" is a noun.

Likewise,
in algebraic geometry, it is common to use
"zero loci" as the plural form of "zero locus".


Johannes

HUEBSCHMANN Johannes
Professeur ?m?rite
USTL, UFR de Math?matiques
UMR 8524 Laboratoire Paul  Painlev?
59 655 VILLENEUVE d'ASCQ Cedex/France
http://math.univ-lille1.fr/~huebschm

TEL. (33) 3 20 43 41 97
       (33) 3 20 43 42 33 (s?cr?tariat)
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Johannes.Huebschmann@math.univ-lille1.fr








Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2016 17:53:24 +0200
From: Patrik Eklund <peklund@cs.umu.se>
To: Marta Bunge <martabunge@hotmail.com>
Cc: categories@mta.ca, wlawvere <wlawvere@buffalo.edu>
Subject: categories: Re: Grothendieck toposes

Heraclitus of Ephesus used 'logos' for what is pretty well-known. Even
more known is that 'logos' is in the first sentences of the Gospel of
John. I'm not claiming anybody should care, but using 'logos' for a math
concept must be justified, not for what I mentioned, but for what it is.
What is this discussion really about?

Just wondering.

Patrik



On 2016-11-09 04:35, Marta Bunge wrote:
> Dear all,
>
>
> Indeed, as pointed out by Bill Lawvere, the term "logos" was
> introduced and  is central to the book by Freyd and Scedrov. In
> addition to that of Walter  Tholen there is a review of it by myself
>
>
> Categories, Allegories, by Peter J. Freyd; Andrej Scedrov
>
> Review by Marta C. Bunge,
>
> The Journal of Symbolic Logic  56-1 (March 1993) 352-354
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Marta


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Re: Plural form of topos

[Bob Rosebrugh]

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Note from moderator: 

Since this item has been discussed adequately before, and is barely on topic, I have digested responses. Though some are amusing, nothing further on the subject will be posted. 

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Thanks, Bob Rosebrugh

----------------------------------------------

From: Robert Dawson <rdawson@cs.smu.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 15:46:45 -0400

/A minor comment: //
//The correct plural form of "topos" is "topoi", as the plural form of 
"logos" is "logoi". I vaguely remember that the plural form of "topos" 
was already discussed on this board. //
/ /
//In ancient Greek, "(ho) topos" is a noun. Here is a citation: "Ton de 
hyperouranion topon ..." //
//(Plato, Phaidros, Bibliotheca Oxoniensis, Tomus II, 247 c). This 
citation shows that "topos" is a noun. /

If we were doing category theory in Classical Greek, this argument would 
be irrefutable. The claim that it's a noun is, of course, irrefutable 
anyhow.

Embedded in an English sentence, however, "topos" is, a loan word, and 
the pluralization of loan words is inconsistent.  (We also don't decline 
them.. or we'd be stuck with topou theory!)

"Duck-billed platypodes," anybody?

Cheers,

Robert


------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 16:01:08 -0400 (AST)
From: selinger@mathstat.dal.ca (Peter Selinger)

I would like to add that the correct plural of "color" is "colores".
Because as everybody knows, "color" is a Latin noun. For example, here
is a citation: "Omnes vero se Britanni vitro inficiunt, quod caeruleum
efficit colorem, atque hoc horridiores sunt in pugna aspectu" (Caesar,
Commentarii de bello Gallico, Liber V.14.2)". Proving that "color" is
a noun. Therefore, I urge everyone to use "colores" instead of the
incorrect "colors" (or worse, "colours")! -- Peter

--------------------------------

From: Colin McLarty <colin.mclarty@case.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 15:14:02 -0500

The mathematical word "topos" is not taken from Greek, but from French as a
back formation of "topologie."  The French plural is "topos," and the
English analogue is "toposes."  Etymology is always interesting.

-------

From: David Yetter <dyetter@ksu.edu>
  Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 21:01:01 +0000

That is, of course, one view on the matter.  I'd always inclined to the Gre=
ek plural, but Peter Johnstone famously asked whether those of us who take =
that view when going out on rambles carry our supplies of hot tea in thermo=
i, and I think I have acquiesced to his point of view.


Maintenance of the root-language plural in English in preference to simply =
adding -s or -es (as appropriate) is much stronger for words from Latin tha=
n from Greek, so the appeal to the fact that the Latinate plurals of axis, =
simplex, (but not complex), and locus are maintained isn't that strong an a=
rgument. Using the Greek plural also opens up the question of whether it sh=
ould be pronounced with correct Greek pronunciation or in the way Erasmus t=
aught all of northwestern Europe to mispronounce Greek.


Best Thoughts,

David Yetter

Professor of Mathematics

Kansas State University

------------------------

From: Tadeusz Litak <tadeusz.litak@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2016 03:25:16 +0100
On 18/11/16 17:33, Johannes Huebschmann wrote:
> The correct plural form of "topos" is "topoi",
> as the plural form of "logos" is "logoi". 

Yes, this what ancient Greek would dictate.

However, people have argued convincingly that "toposes" is in fact the form  intended by Grothendieck.

See, for example, footnote 4 in McLarty's “The Uses and Abuses of the History of Topos Theory”.

Moreover, the plural form "topoi" is used for too many notions in the humanities (including journal titles). Just try 
googling for it. And then google for "toposes", for comparison.

To me, "topoi" is the plural form for the notion from rhetoric and "Literaturwissenschaft":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literary_topos

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topos_(Geisteswissenschaft)



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